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E178 - Jesse Michels: What UFO Sightings Reveal About Power, Technology, and the Unknown

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Jan 13, 2026

Guest

Jesse Michels

Jesse Michels, a journalist and researcher dedicated to UFOs and non-human intelligence, dives deep into the enigmatic world of aerial phenomena. He explores historical encounters near nuclear sites, questioning why these locations attract such attention. Jesse argues for an open-minded approach to evidence, urging listeners to expand their understanding of consciousness and reality. He discusses notable abduction cases, classified evidence of non-human biologics, and the possibility of interdimensional entities, all while maintaining a curious and grounded perspective.

02:59:00

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insights

INSIGHT

UFOs And The Nuclear Age

UFO reports cluster around the dawn of the nuclear age and key sites like Los Alamos and Roswell.
Jesse Michels argues this pattern suggests monitoring of frontier physics rather than random sightings.

insights

INSIGHT

Official Secrecy Shaped Public Skepticism

Early U.S. agencies treated UFOs seriously, spawning Project Blue Book after the 1952 DC flap.
Institutional secrecy and intentional downplaying created long-term stigma around the topic.

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INSIGHT

Military Encounters Provide Strong Data

High-quality military encounters, like the 2004 Nimitz Tic Tac, include multiple trained witnesses and infrared data.
These cases challenge conventional aviation explanations due to impossible maneuvers and speeds.

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Why UFOs Matter to Reality

01:20 • 10min

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Modern History of UFOs

11:03 • 5min

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Government Response and Secrecy

15:37 • 5min

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From Stealth to Whistleblowers

20:34 • 2min

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The Nimitz Tic Tac Case

22:32 • 2min

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Why UFOs Focus on Nuclear Sites

24:32 • 4min

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Vandenberg and Missile Interference

28:40 • 2min

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Experiencers at Nuclear Bases

30:58 • 3min

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Evaluating Extraordinary Evidence

33:28 • 2min

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Patterns, Repeatability, and Global Cases

35:34 • 3min

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Cultural Impact of Disclosure

Letting Go of Human-Centric Thinking

42:23 • 7min

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Abduction Reports and Credibility

49:13 • 4min

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Nuclear Witnesses and Hypnosis

53:28 • 6min

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Non‑Human Biologics and Material Evidence

59:50 • 4min

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Insiders, Whistleblowers, and Grush

01:03:21 • 3min

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Why Visual Proof Is Scarce

A Hidden Branch of Physics

01:08:41 • 7min

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Secret Science, DOE, and National Labs

01:15:35 • 9min

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Consciousness and Alternative Models

01:24:30 • 12min

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Religion, Angels, and UFO Parallels

01:36:37 • 7min

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Interdimensional Lens on Extraterrestrials

01:43:19 • 7min

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Taxonomy: Grays, Nordics, Reptilians

01:50:37 • 9min

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Why Aliens Often Appear Human‑Like

02:00:00 • 8min

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Time, Missing Time, and Nonlinear Travel

02:08:10 • 28sec

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DMT, Breathwork and Accessing Other Realities

02:08:39 • 8min

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Jesse's Personal Encounters

02:16:21 • 13min

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Plural Explanations and Bayesian Thinking

02:29:47 • 7min

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Jesse's Best Current Hypotheses

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The book delves into the life of Thomas Townsend Brown, a scientist whose unconventional theories about electricity and gravity have sparked decades of intrigue. It weaves a tale of science, espionage, and mystery, touching on Brown's involvement in secret projects and his founding of NICAP, a civilian organization studying UFOs. The narrative explores the intersection of science and secrecy, raising questions about the extent of Brown's achievements and his connections to classified projects.

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Sabine Hossenfelder

In 'Lost in Math', Sabine Hossenfelder critiques the dominance of the concept of 'beauty' in theoretical particle physics. She argues that the emphasis on mathematical elegance and symmetry has hindered progress in the field, leading to untestable theories such as string theory and supersymmetry. Through interviews with prominent physicists and detailed analysis, Hossenfelder highlights the problems with current approaches and suggests that a more pragmatic and evidence-based approach is needed. The book also explores historical examples where 'beautiful' theories were initially rejected but later proven correct, and it questions the anthropic arguments that some physicists use to justify untestable theories.

In this conversation, Jesse Michels joins me to explore a question that’s becoming harder to dismiss: what if the phenomenon we call UFOs points to something real—and we don’t yet know what it is? Rather than arguing for belief or disbelief, this episode is an invitation to curiosity, careful inquiry, and intellectual honesty about the limits of our current understanding.

We examine historical UFO encounters near nuclear sites, government secrecy, and the growing body of anomalies that don’t sit comfortably within a purely materialist worldview. This is a conversation about staying grounded while remaining open. About asking better questions. And about whether phenomena like UFOs, non-human intelligence, or something we haven’t yet named might be nudging us to expand how we think about reality, consciousness, and our place in the universe.

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00:00 Intro

06:36 Questioning the Nature of Reality

09:18 A Timeline of Non-Human Intelligence Evidence

23:37 Why Nuclear Sites Attract Attention

31:55 Extraordinary Claims, Extraordinary Evidence

40:29 Ad: Momentous

41:51 Letting Go of Human-Centric Thinking

47:49 Studying Claims Without Dismissing People

58:58 Non-Human Biologics and Physical Evidence

1:06:10 Ad: Boncharge

1:07:25 What May Have Been Quietly Explored

1:18:55 The Hidden Branch of Physics

1:26:38 Reframing Aliens Through Consciousness

1:33:33 Grays, Nordics, and Reptilians Explained

1:40:10 Why We Don’t See Reality Directly

1:53:58 Glimpses Outside Linear Time

1:58:44 Why Aliens Look Strangely Human

2:07:32 Shared Phenomena in Altered States

2:15:32 Jesse’s Personal UFO Experiences

2:23:35 The Monolith as a Metaphor

2:29:07 The Problem With Visual Proof

2:35:24 What Is Actually Happening?

2:46:47 Voices Worth Listening To

2:51:22 What Would You Ask an Alien?

2:53:19 Closing Thoughts

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Episode Resources:

https://www.youtube.com/Jessemichels

https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial/

https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/

https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/

https://www.youtube.com/@knowthyselfpodcast

https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com

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