Tips for Churches at Pride

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how Tuning each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello and happy third week of Pride. It kind of feels like advent, where you’re like lighting the candles every, every Sunday of Advent, like marking, marking the weekends of, of pride. And I know in different parts of the country, not everyone or the world, not everyone celebrates Pride month in June, so people do it in August, September, October, but I, I know lots of people around the world are, are celebrating pride this month.

(55s):
And so it’s, it does feel kind of cool that like every weekend as it goes on, like somewhere in the world it is, it’s pride somewhere. It’s sort of like a, a pride is sort of rolling across the world. And so there’s, there’s something, I dunno, mystical, magical, but feeling connected to, to queer folks everywhere. And so keeping with a Pride month theme a few days ago inside of our online community Sanctuary Collective, one of the members posed a question. So the community that sparked some really interesting discussion in the comments there. And so we thought that we would sh bring that to y’all for today’s podcast episode. So Hannah, inside of Sanctuary Collective was asking about how churches can show up at Pride. Her church for the first time ever was going to be active in three different pride events they were doing, being a part of services and being the table, being in a table at the Pride in the Park celebration.

(1m 44s):
And so she was asking, what are people’s experiences with churches and pride activities and how do, how do each person’s, each member’s church do to help with pride? And how do you make it more than just a token or a show of support? And what would we like to see churches do that would better enrich pride as queer people in general and as as queer Christians in particular. So there’s a lot of like, there’s a lot of fun discussions, the comments there. I know that Shay, you And I have both been involved in churches that have been in, been at, have, have had active, have had active presences at Pride. We’ve also been on like the receiving and we’ve just been at Pride and seen churches show up sometimes in better and worse ways.

(2m 24s):
And so like as you think about churches and religious groups in general at Pride, let’s like start with high guiding principles and then like maybe like work down into some like nitty gritty specific suggestions. So what are some like guiding principles for religious congregations or religious groups at LBT LGBTQ pride events or during Pride events? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think a couple of, like, really, I, I have so many like tactical nitty and gritty thoughts, and so I’m trying to, trying to keep it really high level. You know, I, I think the first thing is to make sure that your church is there via invitation.

(3m 7s):
Meaning that whatever your presence is, that you are being led by queer and trans folks in your community. So like, if you have queer and trans folks in your congregation, make sure that you are showing up in a way that like is led by and feels good to those folks. And if you don’t have any queer and trans folks in your congregation, then I might ask you to consider why you are showing up at Pride and what that means and what that looks like. And you know, how you might, that, that probably might not be the best way for you to begin to engage with the queer and trans community that you might have some work to do before showing up at Pride.

(3m 48s):
The other thing that I would say really high level is like making sure that your presence is centering the queer and trans community and not centering you. So I, we have seen, I’m gonna say it again, I feel like I say it every year, but like, do not show up to pride and apologize on behalf of Christians. Like, it’s not helpful, it centers you and your feelings. It, it’s like, it may feel meaningful in the moment, but like, it’s not actually meaningful change or practice. So I, I just like, stop doing that. It’s, it’s gross and it’s icky.

(4m 28s):
And so I would say that like a message to, on a positive note, like to show up with is, you know, centering the fact that like queer and trans folks are beloved of God. Like, that is a message that you can center, you can talk about, you know, what your church is doing on behalf of, and queer and trans folks and how you are like fighting for queer and trans rights. Like, I think that’s another really great thing to do. I think lots and lots of folks tack and all are welcome here at our congregation logo on their sign or whatever. And I just, so I would encourage you to be like, how, how might we go even deeper into this practice?

(5m 14s):
Maybe you show up and you say like, what have we learned from queer and trans folks? How have queer and trans folks like deepened our our sense of ourselves and and impacted our community? Like, those are all things I think to highlight. And, and, and then the other, like, this is both a a little bit of a tactical thing, but also a big picture thing like show up looking your best. I just, I’ve seen a lot of churches come to pride and have just the crappiest display and church stands and like, this is the, this is the time to put a little bit of money.

(5m 55s):
And I put a little bit of thought and get some of the artists in your congregation involved and like do something that’s pretty, because like it’s pride and queer folks are, you know, not to dive into stereotypes, but lots of queer folks are very artistic. And when you show up with your wrinkly tablecloth that has bad coloring, it just makes you look bad. So yeah, show up, show up and show out for pride. Yeah, I think that there’s like the, the sort of emotional core of there also is that like, we don’t want to feel like an afterthought or that you sort of like threw something together. Right? Yeah. I think some high level suggestions for me is like, how can you lead with like service rather than, and support rather than like recruitment, right?

(6m 45s):
If you’re like, I would not say that you’re like going Tory to try to like recruit new LGBT members to come to your like, awesome church that’s like, so inclusive, like that, like might be true, but like lots of queer folks don’t wanna engage in religion at all. Or Christianity in particular. Like that’s not why they’re there. Some pe some folks are. And so like, it’s not that like the people who want to, who wanna come to your church will see you and and find you because of that, but like recruitment should not be your primary goal being of service and showing, showing support should be of your primary goal. So along though, like with that, are there like tangible things that you can do to support queer people or pride in general?

(7m 25s):
My, the church that I was a member of for many, many years in New York City, it was right along the, the parade or March route on Fifth Avenue. And so rather than marching the parade ourselves, we would set up water tables and hand out water to the marchers. It was like maybe halfway along the route, it gets hot in the summer. And so it was like this like very tangible act of service that we were doing for the marchers of giving out cups of water. Now, of course, like some people were like, oh my God, this is a church doing it. Like, that’s so cool. That’s so awesome. I love that there’s a church here. And some people I’m sure came to the church because of seeing us out there, but like that wasn’t the primary reason why we were there. And it, we also weren’t like out there with signs that say like, this church like loves you or like, we’re sorry or like, come to our awesome church, right?

(8m 12s):
It was just sort of like, we’re a church and we’re like led to do this. And so here we are. It was very sort of like, matter of fact, if you have services, like make sure that you’re like inviting queer and trans folks to speak at those services, to have a few organize like book talks or workshops, like plan to maybe hire a a queer trans speaker or two, and then also like use pride month to make plans for the rest of the year. You know, Shannon, you were saying earlier, like if you don’t have queer or trans people at your church to, to take the lead, like that might be a moment of introspection for why. And so like, it might be that you can sort of like use Pride month to sort of like as an assessment for where your shortcomings are and how you can do better all year round.

(8m 60s):
So those are some high level suggestions that I would share. Well, I also wanna add, you know, a as you think about being of service, you know, I I I also think, you know, there are always protestors at Pride and so like how might your congregants your straight and cis congregants show up and be a barrier, you know, helping to wall off protesters. You know, I, I think about the folks that that showed up for Matthew Shepherd’s funeral with, you know, the giant angel costumes and they, like, they didn’t engage with the protestors, they weren’t yelling back, they weren’t, they just blocked them from view and thereby, you know, rendered them ineffective.

(9m 43s):
And so that, that’s, that’s another thing that you could be doing that is like a tangible act of service to the community that like centers the experience of, of queer and trans folks. And I think that that’s something that could be really powerful. Yeah, And I would also add, like, as you’re thinking about service and support to like, remember that like the queer community and Christians aren’t like two separate groups that queer Christians exist, that the, that the divine is already moving amongst queer people, even queer people who don’t identify as Christian, right? And so it’s not like on behalf of all of Christian Christians, like, we have to do this like for queer people. And so like if you can also find places that sort of acknowledge the intersections that already exist and like in sort of a very queer and Christian way, sort of like blurring those boundaries right between these two groups and saying like, what does it look like if to sort of like, you know, act in solidarity if we’re, if for those of us who are straight cisgendered, like to act in solidarity and to not necessarily, like sometimes it isn’t important just to say that I’m a straight ally, but sometimes it’s important to just sort of like show up just to show up as a person or as a Christian and sort of, it doesn’t, you don’t have to necessarily like make a point that you’re straight and or a church and or Christian.

(10m 58s):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think along those lines, like there also might just be benefit for churches to show up at events around pride, right? Like maybe, maybe you’re not in a place where a table is what you should be doing. Like maybe what you should be doing is walking through the pride fairgrounds and like finding out about all of the organizations that are working in your community and asking them what they need and how your church can support and show up and help them. You know, maybe you are going around and making sure that you sign all of the petitions or donate to the organizations that are desperate for funding, right? Like there are lots of ways that you can center queer and trans folks and be useful and helpful without having your own table or just simply inviting people to, to your events and, and your congregation.

(11m 53s):
Oh my God, I love that idea. Like imagine like organizing and like organizing a group of people, like making, making a kind of like an official event that you plan, you like reach out to people and you plan like we’re gonna like get together in groups of four or five and sort of like roam around and say hello to people. Pick up information, like buy some cool stuff, like make some donations, sign petition and like maybe you’re, maybe you have a big enough church that you can have like multiple pods of people running around. I think that that could be like a really cool impact. Well, and that could be the launching point off to like plan for the rest of your year too, right? Of like, yeah, what are, what are the groups that we learned about at Pride that we want to highlight in our worship services or in our bulletin that we wanna make the, the recipients of our monthly community giving that we want to engage with more and like build a relationship with and, and make that ongoing, right?

(12m 46s):
Like this is, that can be the start of of building those connections and making sure that you’re actually actively involved in your community. Yeah. I’m thinking also, And I think you touched upon this of like there are probably groups out there that need places to meet for free or for very cheap. And so like, can you open up your building to like the transport group or to a local like, you know, queer arts organization that is, you know, struggling to stay out, stay, stay, stay active and, and making a plan for bringing in people year round. So it’s not just like, oh, we have like queer and trans people talk during pride month, but like, okay, cool, so make sure, you know, in June that like, oh, we should have someone talk in August or September or January.

(13m 31s):
Also, it’s not just only that you don’t limit it to to to pride month. Yeah. And then I think also like making sure, like it’s the, I think this is a good, i a good time of year, like to do sort of like, and you should really start this process sooner. So sorry that this episode didn’t come out in like April instead of June, right? But like, using, using Pride as sort of like a, a, an annual check-in sort of like self-accountability moment of like, is our church actually safe and welcoming and accessible and inclusive of LGBTQ people? And like, just because you check it off one year, like sometimes a like cultures shift or buildings change, the policies like just sort of also change or like the cultural around us changes and, and, and what used to be an accepted norm in the queer community and no longer is, and so you wanna just like make sure that you’re staying current.

(14m 25s):
And so doing an audit of things like language on your website, photos on your website, the types of programs that you have and what they’re named and how you talk about them. And especially like if you have gendered programs, do they need to be gendered? Why are they gendered? How do you talk about their gender to nature? So I talk about mentioned bathrooms, bathrooms, absolutely. Like if, if you have a, a welcoming And I and message somewhere, like on a sign or on a pamphlet or in the church bulletin or on your website, what does that say? How are people able to like, share and have their pronouns respected? Do you have greeters that have been trained in sensitivity around names and gender and directing people to bathrooms appropriately and not making assumptions about all that sort of stuff?

(15m 12s):
And, and some of these things, right? Like, like any person who controls the website can slap a pride flag on the bottom of the website, right? Or update the language. But some of this is gonna be or require some like systemic changes or some like ongoing work. Like if you have volunteer greeters, you’re going to constantly be needing to like train and update that training. And as you welcome new volunteer greeters to the team to make sure that they know about asking people for their names, not making assumptions about pronouns, being sensitive to language, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So that like, because you could have a really welcoming church environment and then three new greeters come on six months later and, and suddenly the whole vibe is different when a queer person or a trans person walks in the door.

(15m 58s):
And so, and, and by no one’s like, and that’s not like an intentional action even that happens that’s just sort of like, this is a process that you kind of have to always be like vigilant about because it’s not, it’s not welcome. And inclusion is not a passive action. It’s an active choice. Yeah. And I also think about like looking at your youth programming and making sure that you’re, you’re making space for gender fluid and gender non-conforming toddlers and young people and kids. And also making sure that you are being aware that you might have poly parents and same gender parents and making sure that all of your signup forms actually have a place to acknowledges the reality of people’s families.

(16m 45s):
I I think that we often do inclusive work around adults and forget our families and forget our kids. And so making sure that that that is also part of the work is, is really, really important. And I loved what you said about an audit, right? I, I can’t tell you how many churches I’ve worked at and interacted with who are very proud of like, when they became LGBTQ plus affirming, like whenever they took the official vote, whatever it is in that denomination reconciling in Christ or more light or et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. But when you ask like, okay, and then when’s the last time that you’ve had a training for your congregation about language or issues facing the queer community?

(17m 32s):
And it’s like, not since they took that vote. It’s like, okay, yeah. Then you might, you might wanna rethink that and, and get that Yeah. You know, back on your calendar. I think it’s, ’cause like you said, things shift and it’s important that we’re staying up to date. Yeah. And I’m thinking about like how you, you can incorporate queerness in a way that isn’t about, like, that’s not always about talking just about like what it means to be queer or that someone is queer, right? So like, yes. Like sometimes these like sensitive training trainings are important. Like, and it can’t, it, I don’t think it should, should stop there. Like how can you have like film screenings not just about like before the Bible tells me so, or that like 19 whatever documentary about the translation about homosexuality in the Bible, but like a TV episode discussion of like the TV show pose or reading, reading romance or sci-fi or like speculative fiction or whatever that by queer authors having like going to a queer dance show.

(18m 34s):
Like it being sort of like broader than having queer people that are talking about not just like what the Bible says about homosexuality, but having queer people talk about liberation and good news and the gospel and the reconciliation of all things, or interfaith dialogue or like, it doesn’t always have to be like the queer person talks about defining queer terms, so, right. Because I think like we all have more to share than just that. And so the more that you incorporate it in sort of like really nuanced and organic ways all year long, but especially in pride month. So think, think multimedia lee and think multidisciplinary and think of sort of a di diversity of topics, not just sort of like LGBTQ and the Bible.

(19m 16s):
Yeah. And I think that really also fits in with what you said earlier about like examining the reasons that you’re going to pride in the first place to bring it back to pride of like, you know, yeah, this isn’t necessarily, or just about getting more people to come to your congregation. And it’s like, yeah, it’s really thinking about like, what does it look like for us to be a queer and trans affirming, welcoming, inclusive space? And like, why, why are we showing up at Pride? Like what, what are we hoping to get out of this experience? And also like, how are we hoping to engage with this, this experience? Yeah. I think that that is really, really important. And, and then to be really intentional about like, okay, this is back to some nitty gritty taxes of like, if you have a table at Pride, like what is your messaging?

(20m 4s):
How are you inviting the community to come talk to you? How are you training your volunteers that are sitting at the booth about like, how to interface well with the queer and trans community? What are you giving away? What is, you know, like what is on your postcards, et cetera, et cetera. And just really being intentional and thoughtful about that. I’ll also say like, this is again, just a really tactical thing, but the amount of churches that give swag away, but then like, don’t have anything, any contact information on that is like, just, just also be smart about the fact that you’re spending money to get stuff made.

(20m 46s):
So like, I don’t know, maybe have your website on it. And this is not just churches I’ve seen do this. There was a, a huge, it was a bank in Minneapolis that printed lip balms one year with their company logo, but not their company name or website. They spent thousands of dollars on this and like gave them away. And like, no one has any idea, you get home with a bag of swag, you don’t know where any of that stuff comes from. Yeah. So like, again, like I, I think the thought behind that was useful. Like, let’s use something different and do this kind of like, cool, it wasn’t like a chapstick it was like a, a round lip balm thing, like a really cool idea, but then yeah, no follow up.

(21m 32s):
And so yeah, thinking too about like your congregation too, of like, if you’re gonna give stuff away, what is your plan to follow up with people who might reach out? And, and also realizing that like pride is one touch that you have with your community and it might take multiple, multiple, multiple touches before people actually think of you and your congregation as a safe space. Or actually think of your, your church as a place that they might wanna show up. And so like yeah. Also don’t put all of your eggs in the Pride basket and be like, well, you know, we checked off, we checked off our pride table and like, I don’t know, gay people still aren’t coming to our church and so we must just not be cool enough or whatever.

(22m 21s):
Right? Like, be be, yeah. Also have a realistic view of what it looks like to build community, not just like Yeah. With queer and trans people, but like with your community. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. So if you wanna have conversations about this and other topics, how to make your churches safe and inclusive for LGBTQ people, what that looks like on just like all the intersections of queerness and spirituality and faith. I’m coming to Sanctuary Collective. We would love to have you with the edge.com/community. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.

(23m 1s):
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