How do we compare animal euthanasia versus human euthanasia, do we sometimes actually value animal life over human life, and are we being deceived by Silicon Valley when it comes to cell-cultured meat? In this podcast episode, I sit down with author, journalist and broadcaster Jenny Kleeman to discuss these topics and much more.

Jenny Kleeman is a journalist, author and broadcaster. Her long form writing appears in the Guardian, the Sunday Times, and the Financial Times Magazine, and she is a 2025 finalist of the prestigious Orwell Journalism Prize.

Jenny has reported for BBC One's Panorama, HBO's Vice News Tonight, and Channel 4's Dispatches, as well as making 13 films from across the globe for Channel 4’s Unreported World.

She is a regular voice on BBC Radio 4, where she writes and presents the documentary series The Gift. As well as writing for her Substack The Little Red Notebook, Jenny has published two books, the first being Sex Robots and Vegan Meat and the second being The Price of Life - both are widely available online and in bookstores.

You can find more of Jenny's work here:

- https://www.jennykleeman.com/
- https://www.theguardian.com/profile/jenny-kleeman

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

📚To order my new book, click this link.

For more exclusive content and personal writing from me, check out my Substack here.

On my Substack, I share not only my own reflections and personal thoughts on veganism, but also my journey and struggles. You’ll get a deeper insight into the issues that matter most to me and, in doing so, I hope it helps you feel more connected to your own veganism as well. It’s a space where we can connect and explore the intersection of compassion, reason and rationality together. By joining my Substack you also support the work that I do!

Through my Substack you can also receive regular free 'Good News Roundups' - a collection of positive and inspiring stories from the world of veganism.

If you’d like to support my work separately to Substack, you can also make a one-off or monthly donation here or through my PayPal.

If you’re interested in reading my previous books, you can find them here:

📚 My second book How to Argue With a Meat Eater (And Win Every Time) + if you’ve read the book, you can leave a review here!

📚 My first book This is Vegan Propaganda (& Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You).

Additionally, if you enjoyed this episode, I’d be so grateful if you could leave a review or rating. Your feedback helps the podcast reach more people, and it truly means a lot to me. If you think this episode would resonate with someone you know, please share it with them too.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode and for all of your support. I look forward to speaking to you again in the next episode!

Dwell #122: God Values Me, and That Ain't Changin' - Vera & Natalie