Nate Hagens: "Episode 100 - The Great Simplification” (Interviewed by Kate Raworth)
Dec 6, 2023
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Nate Hagens is interviewed by Kate Raworth, reflecting on the past two years of podcasting and exploring fundamental concepts to better understand trends and challenges. Topics include energy blindness, the metacrisis, future challenges, the great simplification, resistance to combat climate change, bending the finance system, modern monetary theory, changes in education, and embracing change.
Reassessing our current model of growth and prioritizing long-term sustainability over short-term gains is essential for bending the finance system.
Transitioning towards renewable and sustainable energy sources is crucial for bending the energy sector.
Moving away from our current obsession with constant growth and GDP as the primary measure of success is necessary for bending the economy.
Fostering social change and collective action is crucial for bending societal norms and behaviors and reshaping societal values towards a more sustainable and equitable future.
Deep dives
Finance
To bend the finance system, we would need to reassess our current model of growth and prioritize long-term sustainability over short-term gains. This would involve incorporating environmental and social factors into financial decision-making, supporting sustainable investments, and promoting transparency and accountability in the financial sector. Additionally, it would require reevaluating the role of debt and credit in our economy and finding ways to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and resource-intensive industries.
Energy
In the energy sector, bending would involve a transition towards renewable and sustainable energy sources. This would require significant investments in renewable technologies, incentivizing their adoption through supportive policies and regulations, and transitioning away from fossil fuels. It would involve promoting energy efficiency and conservation measures, encouraging decentralized and localized energy systems, and advancing research and development in clean energy technologies.
Economy
To bend the economy, we would need to move away from our current obsession with constant growth and GDP as the primary measure of success. This would involve transitioning towards alternative measures of progress, such as well-being and sustainability indicators. It would require rethinking our consumption patterns and promoting circular and regenerative economic models. Additionally, it would involve implementing fair and equitable economic systems that prioritize social and environmental justice.
Social Change
To bend societal norms and behaviors, fostering social change and collective action is crucial. This would involve raising awareness about the ecological and social challenges we face, promoting education and understanding, and encouraging individuals to take responsibility for their actions. It would require building strong communities, promoting pro-social behaviors, and fostering a culture of cooperation, empathy, and equity. Ultimately, it would involve reshaping societal values and priorities towards a more sustainable and equitable future.
The importance of finding like-minded communities and balance
Finding like-minded people who share your values and concerns about the state of the world is crucial. Building a community of individuals who care allows for support, collaboration, and a sense of belonging. It is also important to find a balance between engaging in activities related to the meta crisis and taking time for personal well-being and enjoyment.
The need for education reform and systems thinking
Education needs to undergo a significant transformation to better prepare young humans for the challenges of the future. Teaching subjects like ecology, systems thinking, and an understanding of our interdependence with the natural world should be prioritized. Thinking beyond acquiring degrees for the sake of career advancement and integrating education on holistic well-being and life skills is essential.
The concern about the global environment and the future of sustainability
There is a growing worry that despite the increasing awareness of environmental issues, the world's focus on sustainability may wane due to energy scarcity, economic problems, and right-wing political shifts. The primary concern is that collectively, we must maintain the focus on protecting and caring for the natural world, as it is fundamental to our own survival and prosperity.
On this special 100th episode, Nate is interviewed by his friend and colleague in the metacrisis space, Kate Raworth. The conversation is a reflection on the past two years of podcasting – and how Nate’s worldview has evolved because of it. What fundamental concepts could help us better understand the trends happening around us and the potential futures they point to? With so many moving pieces, how can we begin to create a coherent story of the world around us and - even more difficult - start preparing responses to coming challenges? What should individuals aware of these converging crises be thinking about in order to prepare themselves, their families, and their communities for a materially smaller future?
About Nate Hagens
Nate Hagens is the Director of The Institute for the Study of Energy & Our Future (ISEOF) an organization focused on educating and preparing society for the coming cultural transition. Allied with leading ecologists, energy experts, politicians and systems thinkers, ISEOF assembles road-maps and off-ramps for how human societies can adapt to lower throughput lifestyles. Nate holds a Masters Degree in Finance with Honors from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in Natural Resources from the University of Vermont. He teaches an Honors course, Reality 101, at the University of Minnesota.
About Kate Raworth
Kate Raworth describes herself as a renegade economist focused on making economics fit for 21st century realities. She is the creator of the Doughnut of social and planetary boundaries, and co-founder of Doughnut Economics Action Lab, based on her best-selling book Doughnut Economics: 7 Ways to Think Like a 21st Century Economist. Kate is a Senior Associate at Oxford University’s Environmental Change Institute, where she teaches on the Masters in Environmental Change and Management. She is also Professor of Practice at Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences. She is a member of the Club of Rome and currently serves on the World Health Organisation Council on the Economics of Health for All.
