Cottagecore Feminist to Tradwife Pipeline

In this episode, we delve into the unexpected similarities between urban feminists and traditional housewives, exploring the personal confessions and realizations of women who feel torn between career aspirations and traditional homemaking roles. The discussion highlights the biological inclinations of women and the social constructs that lead many to reconsider their lifestyles, touching upon themes like the allure of cottagecore, the cultural impact of feminism, and the importance of having honest conversations about life goals and aspirations. Through personal anecdotes and reflective dialogue, we examine why some women might feel drawn to a 'trad wife' lifestyle despite initially rejecting it.

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Well, today we're talking about

Malcolm Collins: The difference between, because it's something I've been reflecting on a lot your classic, like, San Francisco, Manhattan feminist, And your classic trad wife is really not that far and a lot of people have been saying oh I want to you know Convert this woman to become a like a good trad wife or whatever and yet what you'll see is that many? quote unquote, like Manhattan feminists want to be trad wise,

Speaker: I feel unbelievably betrayed by feminism. I was constantly fed this idea that women can do everything. We don't really need men. I kind of want to go back to some of those, some of those teachers and coaches and say, what the hell did you mean by that? Because We can't do it all. I we can't.

Speaker 2: I sacrificed my life for my career and regret [00:01:00] every minute of it.

One woman's raw confession after finding herself childless and lost at 40.

Speaker 3: What happened? He lied about going to the airport. And? And I said I hope he dies in a car explosion. Lemon, life is about minimizing regrets. What I'm trying to say is, you're young and you still haven't blown it completely.

Speaker 6: That is less cliché. I can do

Speaker 5: it.

Speaker 6: I can handle it

Speaker 5: all.

Malcolm Collins: many? quote unquote, like Manhattan feminists want to be trad wise, even the progressive ones. And the things that they do in their spare time, the things that they associate with aesthetically,

Simone Collins: the

Malcolm Collins: things that they even think about aspirationally are really, really in line with trad wife values and that getting them onto a trad wife [00:02:00] tract is about reframing those things.

And getting them to overcome a few key barriers that are difficult for them in terms of self like internalization and internalization about the world and not about changing their actual desires. And so an example I would use of this, you know, is. For example, somebody's like, Oh, come on. Tried wives are nothing like San Francisco wives.

You know, they like making bread. And I was like, have you heard about like the sourdough fad in San Francisco? Like all of the women, Simone, for example, you were like a hardcore San SF feminist, right? Would you say you wanted to keep I ever

Simone Collins: identified as a feminist, but yeah, I mean, like I grew up. You wanted to keep your

Malcolm Collins: last name after that.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: I was hyper progressive, so whatever that means.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, but you made your own bread in your spare time? I did. You would make pastries for events? What were they, like, cupcakes and stuff like that?

Simone Collins: I did, yeah. [00:03:00]

Malcolm Collins: Okay, you would you had friends at least who crocheted and created other sorts of Oh yeah,

Simone Collins: and all my friends and I, and many of my friends also, I, I enjoyed wearing vintage 1950s dresses with petticoats as my friends.

Or

Malcolm Collins: historic cosplay, which is what, what would you call trad wife outfits or what you're wearing now?

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah. That is interesting. The, I mean, there was this period where you, and I, I dressed very professionally and that was shortly after I met you. And that was because we were both trying to build our careers.

And that was the right thing to do. But when you met me, I dressed more like a trad wife. Sometimes, sometimes I also dress like a You,

Malcolm Collins: you, you, people would have thought it was quirky. It was like bows in your hair and like, like sundresses. And like, it was San Francisco. But when I recontextualized, like, yeah, but it was also very trad wife.

Simone Collins: When I

Malcolm Collins: say [00:04:00] bows, I mean, large bows, like foot long bows in her hair.

Simone Collins: Hyper, hyper feminine. Yeah. And. Yeah, now, now I'm back to dressing like I dressed before I met you in terms of like, like cottagecore costumes every day, so that's interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Even things like chickens. Okay. So do you remember the, the thing at that party where like the women were talking about this new fad were like, you would have to kill your own chicken before eating it to learn what it was like to have to kill an animal that you had to do?

And so they would like buy and raise chickens and like, obviously some like very high status. But you could even eat the chickens. Like, oh my god, and you had to kill them and be okay with that? Yeah.

Even the hunting was a weird thing. It was like, well, you know, if I'm gonna eat meat, I need to be conscientious about killing it. So, like, I go out and I go on hunting trips every other week or something. It's like, what? And I think that there is [00:05:00] this I don't want to say like on both sides are the dehumanization of the other to the extent that they can't see how close they are, how similar

Simone Collins: they are.

You know, it reminds me even when it comes to things like sort of mental health and peace of mind that one episode in which, ron Swanson has, has been roped into a meditation class. Yes. And everyone else is like sitting there, like struggling to, you know, concentrate and he's like, I don't know what they were.

Speaker 6: all told, we were in there about six hours. And no, I was not meditating. I just stood there, quietly breathing. My mind was blank. I don't know what the hell these other crackpots are doing.

Malcolm Collins: . Yeah. It's, it's that weird

Simone Collins: Horseshoe. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I wonder, I mean, so I, I, I have a few big takeaways from this. One is, I think. And a large part of the things women want are biologically ingrained in them.

I do not think that they are [00:06:00] acculturated to go back to crocheting. You know, whether it's anime baubles or, you know, baby blankets. There is clearly something that's drawing them to this behavior, right? Yourself, you did all sorts of things I would consider arts and crafts. Yeah. It's like very little else I could call it.

Like if you did it with my kids, I'd be like, Oh, that's so sweet. Look, she's making little, like pasting various different color,

Simone Collins: like carved pumpkins or holiday wreaths or all sorts of things that like, yeah. Trad white moms would do with their kids, but I would just do it with my friends. And

Malcolm Collins: guys don't do this, this stuff alone, by the way, like guys do not like.

Get together with a group of guys and like carve pumpkins in, in like SF, like there, there might be like some gay groups that do or something, but that's like, not like a guy instinct, right? It is fascinating to me that even when they demonize the act of motherhood and femininity, that they still do [00:07:00] it.

uses to engage in this formative femininity. Yeah. And so the first thing is, there appears to be some sort of a biological instinct here. What

do you think is driving it with like the chickens and stuff? Because I do remember like chickens being high status. They were high status to you even when you were like a feminist.

Simone Collins: Yeah I grew up always wanting to have chickens, especially chickens that laid blue eggs. I think maybe a lot of this has to do with that sort of very lesbian cottagecore concept.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and let's talk about cottagecore. The cottagecore became like a feminist thing. What is more trans than cottagecore?

Simone Collins: But like, also, I don't know, because like, I've come across so many YouTubers who are like, what is more queer than cottagecore? You know, like It is not necessarily considered to be a, a rad wife thing.

And I think there's, there's weirdly this like kind of, again, full circle thing [00:08:00] that's going on.

When it comes to like sort of that bucolic farm life cottage core thing, a lot of. A lot of people are looking to like, you know, sort of historical women doing stuff in the countryside and they were often doing that alone or just in the company of other women. And there, there is something like they weren't doing it in the company of men and they weren't doing it necessarily with their heavy involvement.

They were like men were off. I don't know like John Adams was like putting America together and like they were off fighting wars or doing business or you know, whatever, whatever it is that they were doing and so I think that there's became this sort of feminist fantasy around Self sufficiency on a farm, sort of running your own household, having your independent self sufficient life and feeling really empowered by that.

And it could be seen as a very very married thing, you know, when you look at it through the little house on [00:09:00] the prairie lens. Or you could think of it as a very sort of like empowered female on her own lens. If you think about just like Abigail Adams in the absence of John Adams.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that makes sense.

By the way, if your people are wondering why the baby's crying so much right now, she probably is sick. Whatever we had last week, if you heard us dying on the podcast, or who knows when this episode goes live, but she just needs hugs. And she's

Simone Collins: very fussy, but she won't accept hugs. She just wants to.

Rhyme and scream endlessly. So that's

Malcolm Collins: yeah, she's having fun with it. She's having fun But the other thing that I wanted to comment on here was what this means for dating for a lot of guys Because you know, I saw this 4chan green text that was, you know being played on YouTube and everyone's like Oh, this is so fake.

It was of a guy And it was fake, obviously. But like, they thought that the concept was fake. That a guy [00:10:00] met a feminist, and that she secretly wanted to be a trad wife, and that then, you know, she ended up living, they lived together, and they ended up happily ever after, right? And I was like, but that is what happened to me.

Like, I met a woman who was a feminist, and just through conversations it was mostly about realizing that the other side wasn't an evil bugaboo and that she could make choices. The biggest thing that you've always described is realizing that you were allowed to choose those lifestyles. These women love the idea of the cottagecore environment on their Pinterest, but to actually live in it?

That's impossible. And it's like, well, look, here are the costs of living in these areas. Here are the costs of living here. Like it's, it's not impossible. You actually are spending more here when you can trust the average salary versus the average salary. And now that you can earn online, like, why are you doing this to yourself?

It's talking them [00:11:00] through their goals. Both aesthetic and personal and helping them realize those goals are possible.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): To be more specific here, my early conversations with Simone were not feminism bad. It was what do you want to achieve with your life? What do you think has purpose and value in life? And how do you plan to achieve those things? And then through walking through how she could achieve those things, that's where we realized that.

Or by walking through some of the values that she thought were important, , that's where we ran into philosophical issues. with things like feminism. But that wasn't the initial goal. Feminism was the roadblock to her living the life that she wanted to live. It was not something that I just came out objectively like, this is terrible.

My goal always in those early conversations was to help her realize her own dreams and help ensure that those dreams were philosophically coherent and, , robust.

Malcolm Collins: And not being afraid I mean, I think that there's different categories of feminists, right? [00:12:00] Like there's the I Genuinely hate men category of feminist.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: but I don't think every you know, I think that that's a smaller category to be honest

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don't I can't think of anyone I've personally met Who just really hate men as a woman, I have met at least two men who seem to really hate women.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I have two more reasons. I've met more men who seem to genuinely hate women recently, just recently. Now, I'm talking about what I've seen online. Now, online, I see way more misandrous women, but that's because of the content I consume. I find that really funny.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don't, I don't consider someone online to be even, like, maybe their audience believes that and that's what they say.

Like, they might not actually feel that. So, I'm only counting, like, people, people whose behavior demonstrates, like, very clearly that they hold women in disdain and that they see women as [00:13:00] almost subhuman.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it hurts him in terms of dating and everything like that, but like, if you're a guy who doesn't feel that way I'd say that you might be surprised at your luck within the quote unquote feminist dating market.

That the, the blue haired freaks, who you have been avoiding, may love crocheting anime characters and may love Cottagecore and may love the idea of one day living on a farm, but they are afraid of considering that was the type of person who would say support Trump or something like that. And so the key isn't so much Finding women who want all these things because so many women are just biologically programmed them to it's breaking them out of this box of illusions that they have been placed in that allows them to play this perpetual victim,

Which is sort of the spell cast by the urban [00:14:00] monoculture on so many of them.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, but like, how would you navigate? Past the women, or would you just write off the women who have like in their profile, like if you even thought about voting for Trump, don't ever reach out to me. Like, are they too radicalized to

Malcolm Collins: be? No, some people like debating and stuff like that.

Like some women like that are really open to changing their minds, but you will know when you debate them. What I would say is, is you can tell pretty quickly which type of person you're dealing with in a debate.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Are

Malcolm Collins: they just like all Trump voters are racist. And then you're like, well, okay. But like.

45 percent of Latinos voted for Trump, internalize it. It's like, no, but like, can you think about their perspective? Why might they have felt this way? Like why might even, even Latino women move to vote more for Trump? Like, can we talk about outside of this racism? Why some people feel this, if you can break them out of this, no, what I will say is [00:15:00] super dangerous is marrying one of these women as a progressive man.

I would say almost never do.

Simone Collins: So

Malcolm Collins: don't,

Simone Collins: so it's consider, consider marrying a left leaning woman. Okay. Okay. Let me, let me see if I'm following your reasoning here. Marrying a left leaning woman as a right leaning man is reasonable because she's probably going to see the reason behind. All of your logic with time Kind of come around And she'll realize like the toxicity of a lot of her views with time if you're left with time,

Malcolm Collins: you don't marry her until she's realized I I guess i'm saying like don't like hope She realizes after you marry make sure that happens first continue

Simone Collins: And then if you're a left leaning man, you're just going to make it worse she's just gonna end up hating you and everything in her life and spiral into depression and so Don't because it's almost like she left leaning [00:16:00] women could be seen as like someone with like a precancerous condition.

And if you're right leaning, you kind of have the cure, but if you're left leaning, you're like an active carcinogen. And you're like making it worse. You're like a ton of alcohol and sugar and stress on a body that like has potential to develop cancer versus like,

Malcolm Collins: No, I, I wouldn't say that exactly.

I think that the left leaning guy would think like, well, I've subdued the crazy parts. The problem is, is you haven't popped the bubble. The bubble is the alternate world view, where if you are a racist in America, you wanted to, Disgusting racist fascist which you are if you are in, in current America might not have been the case before, but if you are a leftist today, to any extent, you are a racist, you are supporting a party that supports the systemic separation of human beings based on their ethnic group.

the systemic affordance of human dignity to different people based on their ethnic group or sexual preferences. And [00:17:00] that is a worldview that if you are saying, I'm going to go for a more vanilla form of this, it's very easy for one partner to enter a more extreme form of this. The thing about breaking a woman out of this as a guy, where I would actually say, if you are a conservative guy and there is one of two women you're marrying, One has spent her entire life politically uninvolved.

The other used to be a feminist, like my wife or, you know, something like that. But Realize the wrongs of that culture had the bubble burst and then ends up marrying you. You are 100, 000 percent safer with the latter than the former. Because the former is still susceptible to the virus. She's still susceptible to gal pals whispering this stuff in her ear.

She's still susceptible to picking up a podcast that talks about this stuff. The other one The moment you pop this bubble for one of these girls and you see this over and over and over again, look at our interviews like Peachy Keenan or something like this, they begin to [00:18:00] see like all of the people who think this way is like enemies trying to ruin their lives again.

They, they build up a very strong immunity to it.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: Now I need to state emphatically this uni directionality only applies if they have already been fully converted to the urban monoculture and then are brought out of it if they haven't been significantly exposed to it or they have never converted into it. IE they've never really thought about the ideas of feminism or they started as a conservative.

A lot of these women do end up going to the urban monoculture. When I discuss this uni directionality, it's only once somebody is fully bought into it. Once they're broken out of it for the first time, that's when the immunity is had. If they have never been exposed to it or never had a full infection, they are still susceptible to the virus.

Malcolm Collins: It's almost like it's okay to fish within the urban monoculture. Because getting a fish out of the urban monoculture develops a very strong immunity to the urban monoculture after that. Whereas a fish that was never fully [00:19:00] indoctrinated is always going to be susceptible to that.

Would you say that this, have you ever seen somebody who came out of the urban monoculture go back into it?

Simone Collins: No, honestly, yeah, it seems to be unidirectional going from far left to the right, and I even see this with like historical, just like social association, like the family members that I had who started out in the Hare Krishna and then ended up as like conservative Christians. I've never seen someone go the other way, like, and I'm sure there are plenty of examples of people who were, like, Well, we heard these stories where, like,

Malcolm Collins: the grandfather was systemically indoctrinated and his family didn't listen to, let him listen to any other news source for, like, years.

But other than that, it seems very difficult to, to get somebody who's broken out of it. But what is actually interesting to me [00:20:00] is, I think if somebody starts far right, even if they start far right as a wife, they are susceptible to this. You are actually, I would say, maybe twice as safe with somebody who started urban monoculture, and you broke them out of it, than you are somebody who starts Far right.

And I can think of an example of this, like, within my family. A wife, like, after the divorce, where she, like, adopted all this feminist rhetoric and everything. Remember she was talking to you, Simone, about, like, don't you think you have it harder as a woman? And you were like, what are you talking about?

Do you know who I'm talking about? Oh with the house? Yeah, the house.

Simone Collins: I imagine that she held those views during her tenure in conservative culture as well Based on her personality, so I'm not sure Would say that someone who grows up very very sheltered though [00:21:00] I mean the one the one case in which you very consistently See people who are conservative move to hyper progressive culture is if they grew up in a sheltered bubble that is conservative, and then they discover that there were a certain number of lies that had been told to them, or that there are other ways of living life that they hadn't yet really seen systematically in good faith.

Torn down or questioned.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: like only just like, this is bad. Never do it. If you do this, you'll go to hell or everyone who does this addict and terrible. And it turns out that's not true. And then they go hard, hard into progressive culture. So yeah, I guess that that's fair. Like there, there's probably a thought among many of the single young men.

Single young men who watch this podcast who are thinking, well, I'll just find a nice girl from a super sheltered, religious conservative community. Yeah. And that that would be a very, [00:22:00] very bad idea because then as soon as they get exposed to the wider world. They'll make a lot of assumptions about it being better because that's all the promises that are made by progressive culture are we're better We follow the science.

We are correct. We are the enlightened ones. We are the forward thinking ones No one Or you're advertising the fact that it's, you know, actively backwards and racist and anti science and anti evidence and all these things because that's not how that works. So, yeah, I could see that being uniquely dangerous and I, that's a very interesting sell.

I didn't know that that's what you're going to make as an argument in this. Or you get to

Malcolm Collins: make the exact opposite argument. You get to go to the person who's been indoctrinated and hidden within this progressive culture. Huh. And you can just be like, guess what?

Simone Collins: You've been lied to. And that's, that's a very fun sell.

Go to

Malcolm Collins: that farm you've dreamed of your entire life where you can Yes, work your online job and spend your days crocheting and spend your days, you know, caring for chickens and you know, on the cottage core property and we can have a [00:23:00] big garden and work it together sometimes. You know, that is they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, I can have it all?

It's like, yeah, we won't earn as much, you won't get the new computer every year, you won't get the new gadgets, you won't get all the jewelry you want. What's the point of jewelry if I'm not showing off to the city friends? But yeah, I think you're right. Which I think is something that just isn't talked about that much or isn't talked about being possible that much, or when it is talked about being possible, people think it in a fetishized context where people are like, well, Malcolm, you built Simone. And like, that's true. A lot, but it was because you weren't given a good framework to build yourself.

And I guess my question to you is like, what advice would you give there? Like, how does somebody approach somebody with like an alternative? Like, I approached you.

Simone Collins: Well, the most powerful thing you did was ask me what I really wanted, and then help me get there. [00:24:00] From a first principles approach. And I think that's The thing is, is when you ask most progressive women what they want they're not taking the most efficient or effective or likely to succeed pathway to get there.

And you can provide them with information on other ways they can achieve their desired end.

Malcolm Collins: That's a good point. It start with, if you're like, how do you, how do you do this? Start with what do you want from life? What do you want in terms of kids? What do you want in terms of family? And what you're going to get from these women as well, is of course I want a husband, but I'll never find a guy who meets those metrics.

Of course I want kids, but I never find somebody who meets those metrics. And many of them feel this way. Not all of them, but enough of them where you still are offering something of arbitrage within these markets because so few other guys within these markets who are actively dating are interested in providing that for these women, you [00:25:00] know, they want.

Easy sex, often, and if you want something else you're providing something that no one else on the market is offering. Oh, that little one has such a bad fever. Here's a question I have around kids. So they might be like, well, not all women want kids. You didn't want kids, okay? When I talked about kids and you're like, well, I mean, if I don't have to leave my job, if I don't have to leave my aspirations to have kids, then sure, I'll have kids.

Because that's what I asked her. I wasn't even like a trad path I went down. She's like, I'll have kids if I don't have to leave my aspirations to have kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I

Malcolm Collins: was like, okay, does that mean you'll support me? And I was like, yeah, sure. Then if that's my backup, that works. Obviously not ideal for you either.

But like we, we sort of like negotiated this. And I think that like being forced to think through this, as soon as you started thinking about kids, you were apprehensive about them until you had your first, right? [00:26:00]

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. Yeah. Before Octavian was born, I approached you and said, I Can't guarantee that I'll love our son.

Like I don't know what I'm going to do about this. And lo and behold, hormones work. And I love him so much as I love all of our children. So, so, so, so much. But I don't think you can really communicate that to

Malcolm Collins: When you can't promise it either, sometimes hormones mess up, sometimes men are born Yeah, and

Simone Collins: sometimes women have such terrible postpartum depression that they're like, send it back, I don't want the baby, like this, you know, I'm not doing this, and that's devastating.

But again, it comes back to having very open and honest conversations with Any partner that you're about to embark on a life with whether you're male or female and whether they're male or female is what do you actually want with your life? And what is your current plan to achieve that? And what, what are more creative ways that could be achieved?

And the most interesting things you did again, when it came to the discussion with kids was like, okay, you, you [00:27:00] say you don't want kids, but why? And it was because I didn't want to give up my career. There, there was really no other. Concerned with that. So I think thinking about things from a first principle standpoint, you know, why do you have to live here?

Why do you want to have this job? Why do you never want to get married? Why do you never want to have kids and exploring that is important. And I would refer people to our other episode about. The various reasons why, especially young, educated, affluent women don't want to have kids. We've discussed that at length in terms of having that kind of argument or conversation with a young woman.

But, yeah, I think another big element of this that shouldn't be understated. Although it's a theme that's coming up in more and more episodes is that you also just have to be good enough as a guy.

Malcolm Collins: Which is hard given that women have you know, really rigged the game against you by saying, well, you know, women [00:28:00] have to earn the same or more as men, but men need to be better.

And it's like, well, what do you mean men to be when men need to earn more than me? And it's like, well, you just, you f*****g destroyed that you idiot. Like, of course they can't earn more than you. When you've created a society,

Simone Collins: well, it's annoying to like men, men both have to earn more than women and have the same or greater education, which it's like, oh, but you know, he like, he owns and runs an HVAC business.

No. I would never, you know, like, he's Go become a Destiny

Malcolm Collins: Orbiter. Go back to that episode. Go become a Destiny Orbiter. He'll see you on the side. Don't worry about it. You can feel good about yourself.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, we, our culture does need a reset with education. It needs a reset with acknowledging what one's value is, and also being willing to acknowledge and accept various forms of value or status.

Like, you, you don't To, like, you may have a master's and all [00:29:00] these other things. And you need to acknowledge that, like, a guy with a very successful, like, roofing business with just a high school degree, but who makes, like, 300, 000 a year, which is a hell of a lot more than you and your, like, marketing position It is higher status than you at least, you know, on, on many dimensions and you should acknowledge that and take him to order

Malcolm Collins: every meaningful dimension.

And I, and I think maybe what we can do as a society here is we need to begin to treat high education guys as a feat as being kind of. It's kind of . It's kind of to have a fancy degree.

Simone Collins: Actually, I think that's going to happen. It's going to start happening naturally as knowledge workers cease to exist.

Oh my gosh, I'm so uncomfortable. As knowledge workers cease to exist as a profession. I think that we're going to see a return to prestige in what used to be seen as lower class roles. [00:30:00] Kind of like the South Park episode predicted, maybe, you know where like suddenly, like all these people who were seen as low class have all the power.

Speaker 10: Hello, gentlemen. What seems to be the problem? I got a lot of jobs here, buddy. This one paid the most today. Pull it together and offer him 20,

Speaker 9: 000. Years. Eight years I spent wasting time at stupid college, when I could have been learning how to do stuff. My baby boy! My water pressure! Mr.

Speaker 10: Well, it's been busy with my various assets. You see, I've been trying to acquire some social media platforms, hey, did you just outbid me to acquire Instagram? I bet I can get to space before you do.

Handyman service, how can I help you?

Note here that I do not believe that this shift is going to be primarily integrated. By just an economic shift, although I do think there will be an economic shift for some types of jobs like manual labor why manual labor would increase in value It's one of the few things that can't be easily automated.

and it's an area where with [00:31:00] fewer and fewer young people in the economy, and fewer and fewer young people wanting to participate in the economy. And let's be honest, the specification of most men being unable to do manual labor is going to be crunched much harder than other professions. But also what we're going to see is individuals and cultures that are able to value men for male oriented tasks, especially when men have been frozen out.

Of the education system and of higher order jobs within bureaucratic systems that those cultures are just going to simply out replicate other cultures and be healthier than other cultures, which will lead them to becoming larger and larger over time.

Simone Collins: So,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, I mean, I think society is about to have a major power reshuffle, which would be a really interesting episode in terms of, like, how power and status hierarchies are going to transform themselves. But yeah, I completely agree.

Well, any final thoughts, Simone, my wife, who I brainwashed out of, I, no, brainwashed out of feminism. You are a regular, free thinking feminist woman, and I brainwashed [00:32:00] you into a trad wife with years of dedicated effort. Do you, do you still have free thought? Is this, is this still all your opinion? Is this the hell that you live in with a crying baby?

Simone Collins: This is not the best time for us to be filming this episode with, you know, a sick baby who's not necessarily advertising life. But here's the thing, you

Malcolm Collins: still feel this way despite the sick baby.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think, you know, one thing that I have heard from Parents who, like, are actually living the real, like, they have a lot of kids, you know, and in some cases stay at home moms, is they're like, the big problem with tradwives is they do make things look too perfect and they, they do make things look unrealistic, and they are setting people up for failure, so I guess it's important that people see the crying babies and the, the fussing sometimes, because that is absolutely a part of life just like, I would argue these, you know, [00:33:00] nights of existential ennui and meaninglessness and anxiety as a hedonically oriented single woman are, you know, like no one, no one films that.

No one films like you kind of just sitting, being like both anxious and bored at the same time. That's a big part of, I would say like the single unmarried life as a woman. So

Malcolm Collins: yeah, there you go. Love you Simone.

Simone Collins: Love you too.

Malcolm Collins: What are we doing for dinner tonight? You're going to reheat some chicken.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: do you know what type or?

Simone Collins: Just it might be I can't really tell the difference in the containers because I haven't labeled them I can do that in the future. So it's either gonna be Well one I could just do curry or I can do the

Malcolm Collins: The whatever, fiery one. No, not

Simone Collins: the fiery one. The one with the Goku chan.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, the [00:34:00] Goku chan. If that one is still around, I'd love some. I'm okay with the curry as well. You let me know.

Simone Collins: The curry would be for two nights. With a decent amount. So I'm thinking you probably want to do the gochujang chicken because I am also thawing out raw chicken.

The problem is I'm going to be doing the gochujang chicken. You

Malcolm Collins: guys don't know, like, she's gotten fire. My wife, by the way, she looked up, like, recipes and stuff about how to make, like, Asian food because I love Asian food. And now I don't even know why I ever leave the house. Like, she is, she's sweet to the kids.

She's the queen. I live in heaven because I captured in brainwash, like a little Pikachu, like a, a feminist woman in San Francisco. Love you. I

Simone Collins: love

Malcolm Collins: you

Simone Collins: too.

Malcolm Collins: Your, your life is a horror beyond comprehension.

Simone Collins: Oh, only when the kids give us the flu, right? Yeah. Yeah, then. You see how she, she stops crying as soon as she like somehow [00:35:00] intuitively knows that the podcast is over?

Malcolm Collins: Of course, she wants our fans to hate babies.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Anyway, I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Love you

Simone Collins: too. ,

Speaker 8: She bakes her bread by San Fran's streets, dreams of chickens and fresh beets. Medieval cosplay, veiled or boots, in her garden she plants her roots. A cottagecore queen in her urban space, crocheting in lace with style and grace. It's been mentioned, trad wives, she'll roll her eyes. Secretly, she'll fantasize in her dreams.

There's a farm wife with her night in the countryside. But she'll tell you that's not what she needs. While knitting yarn and [00:36:00] planting seeds. Her apartment small, but her plans are vast. In vintage dresses, she's typecast. She claims a man won't hurt her. Don't fix her life while knitting yarn and planting seeds.

Her a dough starter, a jar of dreams. Her life's less together than it seems. Cottage fantasies fill her head. But I hate trad wives, she firmly said. In her dreams, there's a farm wide, with her knight in the countryside. But she'll tell you that's not what she needs, while knitting yarn and planting seeds.

Is she lost, or is she found, in her hand spun wool gown? [00:37:00] A wife's purpose so profound, Yet in contradictions she's bound. So she'll bake her bread and live in her lore, Dreaming of life with so much more. A modern maiden, strong and free, With a secret wish even she can't see. Is

she [00:38:00] lost or is she found, In her hand spun wool gown? A wife's purpose Life's purpose so profound, Yet in contradictions she's bound.

So she'll bake her bread and live in her lore, Dreaming of life with so much more. A modern maiden, strong and free, With a secret wish even she can't see.

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