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#117 Minds Under Siege: Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein & Cecilie Surasky

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Jan 30, 2025

Guest

Naomi Klein

Naomi Klein, an award-winning journalist and professor, joins trauma expert Dr. Gabor Maté and moderator Cecilie Surasky for a deep dive into the intersection of trauma and political power. They discuss how collective trauma shapes identities and the dangers of weaponizing fear through media narratives. The conversation tackles the speed of converting recent Jewish trauma into spectacles and explores alternative narratives for healing. They emphasize the importance of compassionate dialogue in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict while advocating for transformative storytelling.

01:22:23

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Episode notes

insights

INSIGHT

Memory and Identity

Recalling past trauma differs from how we use and embody that memory.
Our identity shapes how we process information, especially regarding victimhood.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Overlooked Jewish Trauma

Gabor Maté highlights the under-discussed Argentinian junta's killing of 1,300 Jews (1976-1983).
This event is often overlooked as it clashes with the common Jewish victim narrative.

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INSIGHT

Zionist Narrative

The narrative of Jews as a single, persecuted people is a modern construct, not historical fact.
This narrative serves to justify the ongoing colonization of Palestine.

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Trauma, Identity, and Historical Narratives

01:32 • 23min

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Challenging Narratives of Identity and Trauma

24:24 • 25min

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Exploring Healing and Narrative in State Building

49:44 • 3min

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Challenging Apocalyptic Narratives in a Troubling World

52:53 • 5min

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Navigating Trauma and Compassion in Conflict

58:12 • 20min

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Empowering Change Through Family and Movement

01:18:30 • 2min

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A Heartfelt Conclusion and Call for More Discussion

This book is a major work of political and historical nonfiction, resulting from Joe Sacco's several months of research and an extended visit to the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the early 1990s. It features over 100 interviews with Palestinians and Jews, and it dramatizes the stories Sacco was told. The book is notable for its insightful reportage and its ability to navigate socially and politically sensitive subject matter within the comic book medium. It includes an introduction by Edward W. Said, a renowned author, critic, and historian. *Palestine* won an American Book Award in 1996 and is often compared to Art Spiegelman's *Maus* for its impact and style.

Doppelganger

A Trip into the Mirror World

Naomi Klein

The Myth of Normal

Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture

Gabor Maté

Daniel Maté

In this book, Gabor Maté and his son Daniel Maté challenge the prevailing understanding of 'normal' health, arguing that Western medicine often neglects the impact of trauma, stress, and modern-day living on our bodies and minds. They connect the dots between individual health issues and the broader societal problems, offering a compassionate guide for health and healing. The book is based on over four decades of clinical experience and is supported by extensive scientific research, patient stories, and personal disclosures.

In this SAND Community Gathering (January 2025), journalist Naomi Klein and trauma expert Dr. Gabor Maté explored the complex intersection of collective trauma, political power, and memory in a discussion moderated by Cecilie Surasky.

Drawing from Naomi’s recent analysis of how trauma has been weaponized in current conflicts, and Gabor’s deep understanding of trauma’s psychological impacts, their conversation examined how media narratives and political rhetoric weaponize fear and trauma to gain public support for military and political crimes. The discussion addressed the troubling speed at which the Oct 7 Jewish trauma is now converted into a spectacle through virtual reality experiences, museum exhibitions, and immersive memorials, while questioning who gets to control these narratives and to what end. Together, they explored alternatives for remembering that might lead toward healing rather than perpetuating cycles of violence.

We hear from several Community Gathering audience members with their questions in the second half of the episode.

Gabor Maté, M.D. is a specialist on trauma, addiction, stress and childhood development. After 20 years of family practice and palliative care experience, Dr. Maté worked for over a decade in Vancouver’s Downtown East Side with patients challenged by drug addiction and mental illness. For his groundbreaking medical work and writing he has been awarded the Order of Canada, his country’s highest civilian distinction, and the Civic Merit Award from his hometown, Vancouver. Gabor is also the creator of a psychotherapeutic approach, Compassionate Inquiry, now studied by thousands of therapists, physicians, counselors, and others in over 80 countries.

Naomi Klein is an award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author. She is a columnist with The Guardian. In 2018 she was named the inaugural Gloria Steinem Endowed Chair at Rutgers University and is now Honorary Professor of Media and Climate at Rutgers. In September 2021 she joined the University of British Columbia as UBC Professor of Climate Justice (tenured) and co-director of the Centre for Climate Justice.

Cecilie Surasky is the Director of Communications and Narrative at the Othering & Belonging Institute (OBI), where she leads an incredible team focused on integrating strategic communications and narrative strategies. With a background in Religious Studies and Semiotics, Cecilie views all narratives as sacred, and believes that leaders, for better or worse, often serve as modern-day high priests. As former deputy director of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) she led impactful campaigns aimed at building a co-liberation movement and garnering support for Palestinian human rights.

Topics

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:45 Panel Introduction and Moderator

01:31 Exploring Trauma and Its Impact

02:44 Weaponizing Trauma in Conflict

06:14 Historical Context and Jewish Identity

10:54 Challenging Narratives and Identities

15:09 The Role of Trauma in Shaping Perspectives

30:35 The Impact of Trauma on Palestinians

32:17 Structures of Deliberate Traumatization

37:48 Healing and Moving Forward

41:50 Debunking Historical Myths