Product Agility The Problems with Top-Down and Bottom-Up Change (with Cliff Hazell, Ex Spotify and Co-Creator of Flight Levels)
Cliff Hazell, ex-Spotify and Co-Founder of Flight Levels with Klaus Leopold is an expert on organisational change, systems, agile and Kanban. In this practical and somewhat philosophical episode, Cliff and I explore some meaty topics that Agile Coaches, Product People, Scrum Masters, damned pretty much anyone with an interest in organisational change will love.
This is the first of 3 episodes that Cliff and I recorded on various topics.
In this one, we speak about Organisational change pitfalls Agile Coaches and other change agents can avoid. The power of quitting in a Product environment (as well as in our personal lives). Putting the parts back together rather than being reductionist (through critiquing the words holistic and systemic and a whole lot more (see below).
Should you want to skip to a specific point, this is probably useful (if chapters are not your thing)
- 02:15 - How did Ben become aware of Cliff and his work?
- 03:03 - Who is Cliff Hazell? In his own words
- 06:37 - Is the "Top Down and Bottom" metaphor useful when attempting organisational change?
- 09:20 - The problems with the terms "systemic" and "holistic."
- 11:39 - what is the big challenge when embarking on organisational change?
- 13:48 - What is it that Cliff finds both frustrating and amusing?
- 15:16 - The secret to Cliff's success
- 17:32 - what are the two pitfalls when trying to be outcome focussed
- 21:03 - What was the thing Cliff should have quit rather than carried on
- 24:06 - When an organisation should quit talking about focus
- 27:14 - why is it Naive to think that just training will change an organisational system?
- 28:42 - Episode recap
Useful Stuff
Sunk cost fallacy
- the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
Annie Duke - Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away
Host Bio
Ben is a seasoned expert in product agility coaching, unleashing the potential of people and products. With over a decade of experience, his focus now is product-led growth & agility in organisations of all sizes.
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Ben Maynard
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- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/0lkwAYJzVSuk5zfJ1vIDZq?si=4c691fb12f124a56
- iTunes - https://apple.co/3YvTX8p
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