E87: Embodied Minds and Cognitive Agents with Dr. Michael Levin

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Oct 19, 2024

Dr. Michael Levin, a Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, dives into fascinating research on embodied minds and limb regeneration. He discusses the creation of Xenobots, revealing how non-neural cells can manipulate electric memories. The conversation explores parallels between biological regeneration and AI, illuminating how simple algorithms can exhibit emergent properties. Levin challenges the definitions of life and agency, advocating for a deeper understanding of cognition that intersects with AI and raises ethical considerations in creating intelligent systems.

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INSIGHT

Latent Biological Capabilities

Biological systems possess surprising latent capabilities.
Interventions can trigger complex outcomes, like limb regeneration, by activating internal knowledge.

INSIGHT

Unexpected Capabilities in Simple Systems

Simple systems like sorting algorithms possess unexpected capabilities beyond their explicit programming.
These emergent properties highlight the potential for surprise in complex systems like AI.

ANECDOTE

Sorting Algorithm Anecdote

Sorting algorithms, when implemented in a distributed, fault-tolerant way, exhibit unexpected behaviors.
They demonstrate delayed gratification by temporarily decreasing sortedness to bypass broken cells.

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In this episode, Dr. Michael Levin, Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, joins Nathan Labenz of The Cognitive Revolution Podcast to discuss embodied minds, his research into limb regeneration and collective intelligence, cognitive light cones, and much more. Dr. Levin and the Levin Lab work at the intersection of biology, artificial life, bioengineering, synthetic morphology, and cognitive science.

Nathan just recorded a second episode with Michael Levin and Leo Pio Lopez here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0PsvToTZVtZkdTemV6ntUk?si=85e4614f079a4fcd

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LINKS:

The Levin Lab and Dr. Michael Levin’s research: https://drmichaellevin.org/resources/

Dr Michael Levin’s blog: https://thoughtforms.life/about/

Tufts University Faculty Profile: https://as.tufts.edu/biology/people/faculty/michael-levin

Michael Levin @ Wyss Institute: https://wyss.harvard.edu/team/associate-faculty/michael-levin-ph-d/

Dr. Levin’s Research on Limb Regeneration: https://news.uchicago.edu/how-bioelectricity-could-regrow-limbs-and-organs

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X / TWITTER:

@labenz (Nathan)

@drmichaellevin (Michael)

@CogRev_Podcast

@TurpentineMedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(04:50) Xenobots, anthrobots and the other creatures created by Mike Levin

(08:50) Bioelectric memory rewriting

(14:09) Sponsors: Dealcraft | Notion

(16:17) The difficulty of conducting simulations, which involve running forward passes to predict and alter electrical patterns

(20:38) The concept of backpropagation and mode switching in AI models

(23:12) Why humans do not regenerate their limbs

(37:10) Sponsor: Squad

(38:19) Learning from small and biological systems onto the concept of possible emergence

(45:01) The criticality of multiple scale questions and would a single scale?

(55:40) The concept of the cognitive light cone

(59:34) Advice on habits of mind and suggestions for inspiration on the AI side

(1:13:19) Mike's suggested directions for the AI developers

(1:23:41) Wrap