Ep. 139 (Part 1 of 2) | Author, psychiatrist, professor, and Deep Transformation podcast co-host Roger Walsh was drawn to explore the remarkable world of shamanism—a tradition of opening to altered states, intuition, and profound insights and wisdom—when he found it was the one great world tradition he didn’t understand. He was intrigued by Romanian scholar Mircea Eliade’s description of the core feature of a shaman being “ecstatic flight,” and recognizing the lack of any easy to understand book on the subject, Roger was inspired to pursue this subject in depth and write the book himself! In his book and in this conversation, Roger provides us with a brilliant, big picture perspective, pointing out that at the heart of shamanism (and every great world tradition) are psychospiritual technologies—actual practices—that lead us to the doorway of the Great Mystery, and that service is the culmination of each tradition, both as a means to and an expression of one’s realization.

The dialogue is warm, open, and personal—Roger shares his experience of realizing the vastness of the inner world for the first time (“I felt like I’d lived my entire life on the top six inches of a wave on top of an ocean I didn’t even know existed!”), his realization that “as a culture, we are sleepwalking through life, unaware of the resources, capacities and gifts we bear within us,” and his coming to terms with the Great Mystery. John, too, shares his experiences within the Native American spiritual tradition: the power of the vision quest, prayer, drumming in ceremony, death medicine, and enduring trials in service to one’s people. Roger’s wonderful curiosity, integrity, graciousness, and keen intellect are all in evidence as he discusses the indeterminacy of spirit, mediumship, journeying, and death, and as he marvels at the bottomless, boundless mystery that both surrounds us and is us. Recorded June 27, 2024.

“Shamans were our first general practitioner, spiritual guide, tribal counselor, psychopomp—all rolled into one.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1

• Introducing Deep Transformation podcast co-host Roger Walsh, professor, psychiatrist, and author of The World of Shamanism and Essential Spirituality, among others (01:18)
• Roger’s book, The World of Shamanism—on the oldest spiritual tradition we know of, found all around the world (04:09)
• How was Roger drawn to write about shamanism? (06:36)
• Realizing at the heart of the world’s great religious traditions are psychospiritual technologies—actual practices—to induce the same states of consciousness the founders had discovered (09:31)
• Shamanism was the one tradition Roger couldn’t understand—after waiting for a good book on it to come out, Roger decided to write it himself (10:46) 
• John’s experiences with Durwin White Lightning and Wallace Black Elk of the Lakota tribe, and the shamanic effects of connecting with nature (13:35)
• Roger’s investigation of shamanism included intensive training with Michael Harner, gnostic intermediary who introduced shamanism to the western world (18:38)
• Through direct experience and a lot of study, including the integral framework of Ken Wilber, Roger brings a big picture perspective to shamanism (22:54)
• Native American spirituality, death medicine, and the transformative power of the sweat lodge (23:39)
• The power of the rhythm of the drum in ceremony (27:27)
• The suffering in our world today reflects the artificial environments in which we live (30:17)
• The shamanic tradition is closely wedded to nature; going through endurances in the wild to help your people (35:08)
• John’s experience with vision questing and wolves (37:15)

Resources & References – Part 1

• Roger Walsh, The World of Shamanism: New Views of an Ancient Tradition* (2nd edition)
• Roger Walsh, Essential Spirituality: The 7 Central Practices to Awaken Heart and Mind*
• Roger's website: https://drrogerwalsh.com
• Mircea Eliade, Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy*
• Wallace Black Elk, Black Elk: The Sacred Ways of a Lakota*
• Michael Harner, founder of Core Shamanism, author of The Way of the Shaman*
• Charles Lawrence on the Deep Transformation podcast: Everything is Sacred: Native American Wisdom on Following Your Destiny, Living Joyously, Dying Fearlessly & Dancing in a World Beyond Everyday Consciousness

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Dr. Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D. DHL, is an author and longtime professor of psychiatry, philosophy, anthropology, and religious studies. Roger’s research and writings span several areas, to include the nature of psychological health and well-being, meditation and contemplative practices, religion and spirituality, wisdom and other virtues, Integral studies, and the psychological roots of our current global crises. He is deeply immersed in contemplative practices as student, researcher, and teacher.

Roger’s books include Paths Beyond Ego (one of Common Boundary’s “Most Influential Books”), Meditation: Classic and Contemporary Perspectives (“Outstanding Academic Book of the Year Award”), Essential Spirituality: The Seven Central Practices with a foreword by the Dalai Lama, and The World of Shamanism. He is currently editing The World’s Great Wisdom: What Sages Say about Living Wisely and Well. 

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell