Dissecting the "Dawn of Everything" -- A Conversation with Geoff Shullenberger
Mar 19, 2022
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Geoff Shullenberger discusses 'The Dawn of Everything' book, challenging assumptions on civilization rise, rejecting Marxism, emphasizing human imagination. Weaknesses include over-emphasis on personal freedom, inaccuracy in the 18th century, and blindspot on myth, ritual, environment shaping societies.
The podcast critiques the origin of debt, challenging economic myths on money's necessity for exchange.
Human agency is spotlighted in societal evolution, critiquing deterministic views and rational political lenses.
Constraints and myths are pivotal in shaping societies, challenging oversimplified notions of political agency.
Enlightenment ideals are analyzed in historical contexts, emphasizing human complexity and philosophical reevaluations.
The podcast questions historical narratives and societal freedoms, urging critical examination of established beliefs.
Deep dives
The Dawn of Everything Book Discussion
The conversation delves into an extensive critique of David Graeber and David Wengrow's book, 'The Dawn of Everything'. The hosts exchange ideas on the book's strong revisionist narrative, challenging assumptions about history and societal evolution. They scrutinize the book's emphasis on the origins of debt, debunking economic myths about the necessity of money for exchange. The discussion highlights the authors' attempt to reframe debates on equality and societal evolution.
Critique of Determinism and Human Agency
Criticism is directed towards the book's perceived dismissal of determinism and emphasis on human agency. The hosts highlight the restrictive nature of envisioning societies solely through a rational political lens, overlooking the role of aesthetics, myths, and existing cultural values in shaping societal structures. The discussion questions the book's portrayal of political deliberation as universal across historical contexts.
Myth, Play, and Constraints in Society
The analysis focuses on the book's treatment of myth, play, and constraints in societal structures. Examining the concepts of myth and constraints as guiding forces in human societies, the hosts critique the book's oversimplified view of societies' abilities to voluntarily shift between hierarchical and egalitarian structures. The discussion challenges the notion of unlimited political agency and emphasizes the importance of constraints in fostering societal dynamics.
Enlightenment Concepts and Anthropological Critiques
The conversation transitions to an exploration of Enlightenment ideals and anthropological critiques presented in the podcast episode. Emphasizing the complexity of human nature and the interplay of myth, politics, and constraints in societal frameworks, the hosts probe the implications of applying modern rationality standards to historical contexts. The discussion delves into the multifaceted nature of human agency and societal organization, inviting a reevaluation of entrenched philosophical perspectives.
Misinterpretation of Indigenous Societies
The podcast episode misconstrues the social structures and freedoms in Indigenous societies, claiming they had unrestricted freedom to move and disobey without acknowledging the constraints imposed by social and environmental factors. It simplifies the complexities of societal organization and individual freedoms within Indigenous communities by focusing on idealized notions of liberty.
Critique of Historical Events
The discussion challenges historical narratives and events, such as the significance of peasant rebellions originating from carnivals in medieval Europe. Discrepancies in historical accounts are highlighted, suggesting a need for critical examination of traditional interpretations and popular beliefs. The episode underscores the importance of reevaluating historical stories and questioning established narratives.
Evaluation of Societal Constraints
The podcast points out the limitations of societal constraints and the perceived constraints on individual freedoms within cultural and environmental contexts. It questions the extent to which societies can truly offer unrestricted freedoms of movement, disobedience, and social transformation, urging a deeper exploration of the intricate balance between individual liberties and communal responsibilities.
Value Judgment on Societal Structures
An examination of the distinct value judgments placed on societal structures, freedoms, and historical legacies challenges conventional interpretations. The episode prompts reflection on the subjective nature of assessments that compare societal models, historical events, and individual liberties, shedding light on the complexities of societal organization and the diversity of human experiences.
Freedom of Movement and Social Death
The podcast episode delves into the concept of freedom of movement in historical societies and its complexities. It questions the idea of absolute freedom to move by highlighting examples such as territorial distinctions and societal norms that limited movement. The discussion also touches on the concept of social death, where slavery stems from being removed from one's original social context and losing identity and rights. It challenges the notion of individuals as free-floating entities detached from their societal influences.
Freedom to Transform Social Relationships
The podcast explores the idea of freedom to create or transform social relationships and its implications. It questions the assumption that major societal shifts or revolutions imply an inherent freedom to transform social structures. The discussion challenges the notion of free individual choice in societal affiliations, highlighting constraints, obligations, and prohibitions that influence relationships. Examples like historical societal transitions and resistance to change are presented to illustrate the complexities of societal transformations and individual agency.
I join with Geoff Shullenberger of "Outsider Theory" to discuss the sweeping and challenging new book, "The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity" by David Graeber and David Wengrow. We consider the book's marshalling of new archaeological evidence to debunk mechanistic and deterministic assumptions about the rise of civilization, its deep rejection of Marxism, and its insistence on the human ability to imagine and create an infinite range of social and political futures. We examine the weaknesses and limitations of the book, including its over-emphasis on personal freedom, its gross inaccuracy with regard to the eighteenth century, and its blindspot regarding the profound powers of myth, ritual, and the natural environment, all of which deeply guide and shape societies in ways that Graeber & Wengrow ignore or casually discount.
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Other books & authors mentioned:
Marshall Sahlins, "The Original Affluent Society"
Yuval Noah Harari, "Sapiens"
James C. Scott, "Against the Grain"
Claude Levi-Strauss, "The Savage Mind"
Victor Turner, "The Ritual Process"
Karl Wittfogel, "Oriental Despotism"
John Rawls, "A Theory of Justice"
Francoise de Graffigny, "Letters of a Peruvian Woman"
Niccolo Machiavelli, "Discourses on Livy"
Jared Diamond, "Guns, Germs, and Steel"
JN Heard, "The Assimilation of Captives on the American Frontier in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries," LSU thesis
David Graeber, "On Flying Cars and the Declining Rate of Profit," "Debt: The First 5000 Years"
Karl Polanyi, "The Great Transformation"
Mark Fisher, "Capitalist Realism"
Orlando Patterson, "Slavery and Social Death"
Bruno Latour, "We Have Never Been Modern"
Roberto Calasso, "The Ruin of Kasch"
Ivan Illich
Rene Girard
Richard Wolff
Thomas Sowell
Divya Cherian
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