On this week’ interview episode of The Vergecast, editor-in-chief of The Verge Nilay Patel sits down with New York Times reporter Mike Isaac. Isaac has been reporting on the ride-sharing company Uber for over five years now and just released a book all about Uber and the stories surrounding it called Super Pumped: The Battle for Uber.

Nilay and Mike talk about how Uber got to where it is today, Uber’s interactions with companies like Apple and Google, and whether or not you have to be a “jerk” to start a company that changes the world.

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233. HORMONAS 1: Tus hormonas lo deciden TODO