Discussion on post-war period in Israel, hopes for the future of Gaza, appeal and challenges of peace with Egypt. Acknowledging Palestinian tragedy, Israel's government dealing with Palestinians, emotional struggle and longing for stability among Israelis.
26:00
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Quick takeaways
The possibility of the Gulf States and Egypt adopting Gaza as the first regional project of the alternative Middle East through the Abraham Accords, while acknowledging the challenges and flaws in this idea.
The unique nature of war in Gaza, requiring a different moral conversation and reflection that recognizes the complex reality and the connection between Gaza and the larger Palestinian society.
Deep dives
Post-War Shifts and Discussions in Israel
In this podcast episode, Daniel Hartman and Yossi Klein-Hallevi discuss the ongoing roller coaster nature of the war in Israel. They highlight that despite the war ongoing, a new conversation is emerging about the next stage after the guns are silenced. This new stage forces Israel to think about the post-war scenario and its implications. The speakers mention the possibility of the Gulf States and Egypt coming together to adopt Gaza as the first regional project of the alternative Middle East. They believe that this could be achieved through the Abraham Accords, which seek to create an alternative Middle East of successful countries. However, they also acknowledge the challenges and flaws in this idea, such as the need to address the totality of the Palestinian tragedy and the role of the Palestinian Authority. They emphasize the importance of Israelis seeing Palestinians and rebuilding Gaza while acknowledging the unique nature of war in Gaza and the need for a different moral discourse. They also discuss the disconnect between Israeli society and the rest of the world, as well as the potential for change and stability in Israeli society after the war.
The Unparalleled War in Gaza
Daniel and Yossi delve into the unique nature of war in Gaza, emphasizing how traditional categories of just war do not apply. They highlight the challenges of distinguishing military and civilian sites in an area filled with two million civilians turned into a military encampment. They argue that fighting a just war in Gaza requires a different conversation and moral reflection, one that recognizes the complex reality of Gaza. They also stress the need for Israelis to acknowledge the Palestinian tragedy and to consider the connection between Gaza and the larger Palestinian society.
The Future of Israeli Politics and International Relations
The speakers discuss the potential shifts in Israeli society and international relations after the guns are silenced. They mention the emotional struggle Israelis may face between staying in the trauma of the war and realizing the need for stability and movement on the Palestinian front. They highlight the importance of Israel's connection to the rest of the world, particularly the United States, for stability and support. They also point to the rise of an activist civilian population demanding change and agency, which could shape the discourse in Israeli society. However, they acknowledge the challenges posed by the current government and the potential disconnect between Israeli society and the rest of the world. They conclude by emphasizing the need for a serious moral self-reflection, recognition of responsibilities, and a convergence of Zionist visions and aspirations in the post-war scenario.
After the war is over and the guns are silenced, what kind of moral and political accounting will be needed? Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the national discourse shaping and dividing Israeli civil society, their hopes for the future of Gaza, and their vision for a new Middle East.