What Happens to Africa Long Term? The Pronatalist Perspective

We explore overlooked aspects of Africa's future, including its cultural/genetic diversity, selective pressures, and mindsets. We discuss resilience to woke ideology, potential for conflict, impacts of globalism's decline, and groups embracing technology. Though many regions face collapse, Africa's sheer variety may allow winning cultures to emerge.

Malcolm: [00:00:00] in Africa those conflicts are going to get worse in the short term, but I, where it all hashes out.

Malcolm: A lot of the world's winners, I'd say probably half of the world's winning cultural groups are probably going to come out of Africa. Just due to the sheer diversity of the continent. In literally every context, a thing can be diverse.

Simone: Yeah, I'm excited. Especially because the more people in different cultures.

Simone: In and from Africa we've encountered the more it's oh my gosh, this is this is gonna these are cultures that over time and with more and more technology are going to react in really interesting ways

Would you like to know more?

Simone: Hello.

Malcolm: Hello, Simone. Today is going to be a fascinating topic. It actually came up because yeah, I was, I had a a friend interviewing me and we were talking about what the future of Africa is going to be and in a pronatalist world, but What's the end goal with Africa?

Malcolm: What ends up happening with Africa? And it also reminded me of a conversation we'd had [00:01:00] with Edward Dutton when he was over at our house. He was asking why is it that so many people in the pro natalist movement are black and specifically African? The two groups that are most disproportionately represented in the pronatalist movement are people from Jewish backgrounds, sometimes now they're secular and people from African backgrounds. And so the question was why?

Malcolm: And I actually I don't feel like I had a really good question for it when he was asking me when he was filming for this documentary thing, but I've been thinking a lot more about it and I think I have a better reason now. So at the time, my intuition was, is it was for the same reason as Jewish people disproportionately, I

Malcolm: think. That's still true. I was just pulling at the wrong threads. So specifically what I had thought that it was intergroup identity, like the idea of being like, I like my people. I have no shame in my people. I want my people to exist in the future. And [00:02:00] that was a big part of it.

Malcolm: However, I actually think now what it is familiarity was a mental framework. Of intergenerational tribalistic thinking where people, where you recognize that different groups are different from you, but you plan to work alongside them. Intergenerationally. , in a non dominant way.

Malcolm: Like it, not in a way where you plan to eventually convert them. And that is a type of thinking that sort of, I guess you could say our entire movement is really heavily based around. And it's something that when you talk with Jewish people, they're immediately familiar with it. Oh yes. I understand the concept of working alongside people who are different from me without eventually trying to convert them and living in a multicultural, environments.

Malcolm: And when you talk to people from Africa, because many of them have really strong tribal identities. They really understand this as well. Oh, yes, of course. I understand the idea of, [00:03:00] my, my people might be different from this group's people, but we would still be able to work together long into the future, but here's where it gets interesting.

Malcolm: What actually ends up happening with Africa as wokeism continues to spread because right now, as wokeism has spread around the world this sort of. We call it the mind virus, right? The super virus. It is a sterilizing a medic set, which is eventually going to destabilize many of these regions, but it requires regions often to have a sufficient amount of wealth to easily spread among them and sufficient amount of like social technology.

Malcolm: And I think to an extent China has been resistant and India has been resistant, like South and East Asia have been resistant to it. But the cultures that they had alternative to it seem to just do very poorly against technology and lead to some of the lowest birth rates in the world.

Malcolm: Even lower than woke populations. Middle East, I think this is something that [00:04:00] people might be surprised about, but it's been uniquely susceptible to wokeism, or not uniquely, but surprisingly susceptible to wokeism. And the reason it's been surprisingly susceptible to wokeism is not because wokeism penetrates the entire depth of the society, but because the society is very hierarchical, and the people at the top of that society, Try to ingratiate themselves or like socially get along with to some extent Western friend groups that are of similar socioeconomic levels and as such begin to adopt some woke ideas that then per permeate down throughout society.

Malcolm: So, a great example of this would be Iran's devastatingly low birth rate which was actually created by a government program which the the imam of Iran was convinced to undertake by like a group of like population counts, like far lefty professors or something who were like hanging out there for a period.[00:05:00]

Malcolm: Of course, they've long since realized it was a big mistake and for the past 10 years they've been trying to get rid of it. And trying to get their fertility rate up to very little effect. But it it shows how susceptible those areas have been. But I think Africa is going to be a completely different game going into the future, both genetically and in terms of its susceptibility to wokeism.

Malcolm: So do you want to talk to this at all, Simone?

Simone: Well, what makes me really interested about this concept is that... The original vision that one just assumes with Africa is that Africa is going to every other developed nation so far, get more wealthy and then become very susceptible to wealth induced fragility collapse and then just see the same kind of decline that we've seen in other areas.

Simone: But then, yeah, the more we've talked about this, the more it seems obvious that no, actually, culture in Africa is really different. It isn't so I think what happens is people really lose their culture, right? In the nations, especially where [00:06:00] they've seen a collapse in fertility.

Simone: And you said that China has been somewhat resistant to this, but I really don't think so. Their birth rate has collapsed and while China is very, but for

Malcolm: different reasons,

Simone: I argue. Well, China, well, but China's very thoughtfully tried to fight back against us. And I think you were alluding to that.

Simone: Like they're trying to make a culture of strong men and family orientation and just generally strong willed people. They've really failed to do so.

Malcolm: But it's hard to talk about the China's biggest weakness and I think why it's failing as hard as it is. It's homogeny. Would you say? It's homogeny. Yeah.

Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. Whereas in Africa, multiple cultural hypotheses to tackle this. It's just so there are different like ethnic groups within China, but when those ethnic groups begin to get really high fertility rates, the the Uyghurs had a really high fertility rate the government sees it as a problem and will do things about that.

Simone: Yeah. Well, it's that it's not just homogeny though. I think it's also it's homogeny plus. Lack of an ability to cling to culture. And that's why you'll see like in, in Israel, [00:07:00] which is. It is diverse, but religiously you could argue it's fairly homogenous. This is a pretty,

Malcolm: it's not homogenous at all.

Malcolm: It's hard to argue that it's homogenous. So Israel has been resistant in part due to its heterogeneity. Now typically, most Jewish groups maintain a high fertility rate. They're not like pseudo Jewish groups like reformed Jews. But most of the like more conservative Jewish groups do a very good job Of keeping their fertility rate high, even when they become secular.

Malcolm: But there is a huge diversity among these groups more so than other religious traditions. So it's diversity

Simone: and strength of culture, because I think the other thing is you have the United States too, but the United States has diversity, but it is still. Well, and the United

Malcolm: States has a much higher fertility rate than most developed countries.

Simone: It does, but I think it's still in the middle of a controlled collapse.

Malcolm: Let's take a step here and talk about why Africa is going to matter so much in the future. And I think a lot of people today, they they are scoffing at Africa because they see the Africa of today instead of the Africa of tomorrow. [00:08:00] So there's three core things to note here. One, the African population is going to be, one, much bigger in the future. It is continuing to grow really rapidly at the same time as all of the other world's populations are collapsing.

Malcolm: So just in terms of number of people, it's going to be more relevant in the future. Two, they still have so here I'm going to use the word eugenic and dysgenic and not in the way that we would normally use it, where eugenic is like a scientist who's trying to make the world better, but we're just talking about like positive selective pressure on a group's genetics.

Malcolm: When we talk about the world's IQ dropping by about one standard deviation over the next 75 years. That statistic is specifically only relevant to developed countries,

Malcolm: It is not. We're not seeing those selective pressures in developing countries specifically when I say developing countries here. I don't mean like South America. We're, re they've already a fallen below reproductive [00:09:00] rate, in South America, central America and the Caribbean combined. But I'm talking about the specific regions that are in extreme desperate poverty and that still have really high population-wide fertility rates, which means even if you do believe in intergroup IQ differences you're, you then are one of the people who says, okay, well humanity has. Humanity's IQ is genetically linked. I can see that being selected against in mainstream populations. And what that means is in 100 years you're going to have a lot of really comparative to developed countries. Populations really smart people in Africa.

Malcolm: Now, they might not be. Compared to, modern day populations but you're going to have a lot more Africans. They are going to be proportionally smarter than other population groups due to genetic pressures. And they are more diverse. And I think that the more diverse thing I'm going to put up a graph of how different populations relate to each other genetically speaking, because I think something that people really [00:10:00] miss is just how culturally and genetically diverse Africa is it is, if you're looking at somebody in one African country against somebody in a nearby African country. Those two people will often be more genetically distant from each other than I, someone of a, pretty, well, a totally purely European ancestry, would be to a Native American, like the most distant cultural group that is not African or one of those weird Islander cultural groups that came out of a a different migration, like the

Simone: Polynesian

Malcolm: islands.

Malcolm: Yeah, like the Polynesians, they're actually pretty different.

Simone: Well, and I think that's, it's not just the genetic difference either. It's the cultural difference. Even after South Africa finished apartheid, like there was severe conflict. In between different like groups that had different

Malcolm: absolutely.

Malcolm: But I think that people really sleep on this. Like when they, the people who are like the gene head kids or something like that, like they know it, like they're like intuitively aware that this is a true thing. They just don't really think through the implications [00:11:00] of and this is similar to if you talk about the African genetic variant, right.

Malcolm: That's a bit like me in the U. S. talking about like the British accent. So if you've ever actually been to the U. K., what you would know is that there is far more diversity in accents than there is in the U. S. You can walk down the street and you'll have a different accent. And the reason for that is simply because the language evolved there at the same way the species evolved in Africa and had more time to differentiate within that region into really.

Malcolm: Distinct accents. And so you had the same thing in Africa, which is I am much closer to any Asian than, most Africans are to a person, one country away from them. And the, you should really, if you're thinking about the world's sort of genetics and you were dividing it into different, like genetically meaningful ethnic groups Europeans, Asians, and Native Americans would be part of the same group.

Malcolm: And then there'd be [00:12:00] like 30 groups in Africa. And then the one that we mentioned earlier was like the Not the Polynesians. I'm thinking like the Australian Aboriginals and then the the people in the north of Japan. And then there's a few other groups that are also pretty different.

Malcolm: But this is meaningful if it turns out that some, something in a person's genetics is what gives them a sociological profile that is resistant. to prosperity and technology induced fertility collapse. It is also relevant as Simone mentioned culturally. But it's also relevant. And then the other thing that really matters about Africa is the mindset of Africans.

Malcolm: So the way that the wokes have done a very good job was in countries, especially Europe, America, South America, and stuff like that is when they go into a country. They say your differences, you, one, you, the groups within your country aren't really different and through recognizing that we can remove the pain of all of your emotional group, of all of the intergroup [00:13:00] turmoil, everything like that, and you guys can finally live in this, the gray bland shirt utopia, right?

Malcolm: Where everyone's basically the same. The genders aren't really different. Ethnicities aren't really different. Cultures aren't really different. You all are the same and through recognizing and embracing that you will be able to work together better into the future. I think that just falls flat in Africa for two reasons.

Malcolm: The first reason is one, you don't have the emotional hooks. You can't as easily say and where you could say this. So there were places like South Africa where you were able to go in and say. Hey, the whites are now the dominant group in this region. They achieved that through ill gotten means.

Malcolm: You should, give it all back. You should act equally and everything like that and everything will work out. Right. So they, there were a few places in Africa where there were still like really dominant politically dominant white groups, like in apartheid, South Africa. That claim no longer works, and you can't as easily go to, like a Zulu [00:14:00] president and say that.

Malcolm: That's just not gonna have any effect. They're gonna be like, f**k off, I don't care. And you also can't say that you're all really actually the same. They would see that as preposterous. They'd be like, no I'm... Igbo, he's not that we are not the same. What are you talking about? And then the final thing, and this is something that the wokes, I think, don't want to hear is everywhere that sort of wokeism has tried to be implemented in Africa, like where they have.

Malcolm: Convinced a group that has one power to give up that power has then collapsed. I don't want to go into specifics here, but I'm sure anybody who's actually following situations in Africa will know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I think there are plenty

Simone: of prominent examples of nations that have fallen into.

Simone: Yeah, there's steep or gradual decline that people can see, but to your point, that actually means that the Africa of the future is going to be dominated by much stronger nations. And arguably by much, much stronger cultures. And like you say, I think the future is bringing

Malcolm: a challenge.

Malcolm: Let's discuss what wokeism trying to move [00:15:00] into Africa looks like. What does a prosperous Africa actually look like? What does the future of Africa actually look like? So, one. I think one, one thing that's important to remember is I don't know if, one, the cultural and genetic diversity in Africa is part of why I don't think we'll ever get a totally prosperous Africa.

Malcolm: I think you will get regions that are prosperous because you have so much cultural diversity. Okay. So you're

Simone: essentially saying like some groups will outcompete.

Malcolm: No, I'm saying some groups will be persistently resistant to prosperity. So what you're imagining is a group economically outcompeting, then having a lot of kids and replacing their neighbors.

Malcolm: I think that it'll be a long time before that happens. So one, I expect Africa to be much more patchworky as it begins to become wealthy than other countries, in part due to its intrinsic diversity. The second thing that I would expect with Africa is these groups to have much more animosity you can think of it more similar to like old European city states as they begin to gain wealth and power and be much more on a tribal [00:16:00] level.

Malcolm: Then I expect wokeism to penetrate some groups. Some cultural groups in Africa, I expect to just be completely pierced by wokeism. And they, as they get wealthy, as they get successful and they will, like a wet balloon filter out and disappear like all woke infected groups do.

Malcolm: Then other groups will maintain their fertility rate in the same way that many groups in the West have maintained their fertility rate, which is through disengagement with technological innovation. These groups will likely stay economically poorer than other groups, but still, I think, do depending, there will be a scale as to how wealthy these groups become.

Malcolm: But some of them will do well, some of them will do poorly, but none of them will really outcompete like a middling. Engagement because your economic possibilities are intrinsically limited when you disengage with technology

Malcolm: your economic possibilities are limited when you disengage with technology the final groups, which are the ones I'm really interested in, which are the [00:17:00] groups that I think are actually going to lean hard into technology. So these are groups that are going to. One used polygenic selection. They may even use more technology than that because the actual tools behind this technology are much more usable than one would think.

Malcolm: So there's already examples of this. So, if anyone is familiar with the transhumanist Mormon group so I'll talk a bit about them because they started in the U. S. So they were started as a predominantly white group in the U. S., but they were just like a bunch of let's be honest, like college nerds, I don't think that they were ever that big of a movement, but their interpretation of Mormonism and this is accurate to an extent.

Malcolm: So, Joseph Smith, when he was writing the original books of Mormon, he was really heavily influenced by sci fi of the time and fantasy of the time. If you look at the books that the book of Mormon is most similar to, there's some great, if you want to like, I'm really into like origins of religions and studying them.

Malcolm: Very interesting. So you could almost see the origins of Mormonism as combining Christianity with frontierism[00:18:00] technophilia and sci fi of the time. Now not modern sci fi, but sci fi of the time. And that, that is where Mormonism came from. And then they're saying, if you take this mindset, And you bring it into the present and you say, actually the promises of Mormonism were all true.

Malcolm: Humanity really will eventually be a god like entity, really will rule multiple different planets that they will have responsibility to go to and seed and build new races on and not racism, like a racial context, whole new species that they will curate and that our planet may actually have a god from a previous one of these outward things.

Malcolm: They give true, as they say. It was like a weird thing in the U. S. So they had some people go to Africa and preach this. Turns out it exploded. The guy who I was talking to in it was yeah, they've got 30, 000 members or something already. This is in Guinea, I think. So, so it's really exploding, but he's also he was a little worried about introducing me to them.

Malcolm: So I haven't met this group yet. Cause he's they're [00:19:00] actually like a lot more conservative than your average American Mormon. Like he was a guy who was really like worried that we did like the, we don't care that Kevin Dolan, who's like a super guy has read him the name of his conference and we get along with him.

Malcolm: We get along. It was like really cancel people. And he's Oh. Well, I guess if you get along with him, you might be able to deal with these people. So basically what he's saying is they are both incredibly technophilic, but so conservative that he's squished out by it. And I'm like, oh, that's my type of people.

Malcolm: I think that's a successful group. And so I think we're going to see more groups like this in Africa. And I think what people are missing is how quickly a group. can split out from the mainstream population once it begins to at a wide scale, engage with genetic selection technology in terms of positive physical characteristics and IQ.

Malcolm: So you're doing, for example, polygenic IQ selection, within three generations, I haven't read all the mass yet, but my intuition is you're probably [00:20:00] looking at about a 2. 5 X increase in IQ standard deviations which big, and then this is going to continue to snowball into the future. Now, of course, these groups will start small, but once they are able to start mass producing people.

Malcolm: With things like artificial wombs and stuff like that, then they can begin to geographically outcompete their neighbors, which I think you were talking about. However, I think that after the world undergoes the first population collapse, the idea of geographically outcompeting your neighbors will be seen as old school.

Malcolm: So, Lippenschramm will be seen as not an important thing anymore. If I can explain this differently, if you have a technophilic group which is exploding in population, Historically, what you would want to do is displace your neighbors, put your people on their land, and grow that way.

Malcolm: However, if these groups are really high IQ and really technophilic they'll probably be culturally [00:21:00] prepping for space travel, essentially. Which means, because that would be the obvious long term, I think, we are on a sinking ship on this earth. It, And they can say, well, I love it. People are like, oh, and like rats, you want to scurry off of it?

Malcolm: Like, why don't you fix the mother Gaia? And I'm like, okay, you guys can be given the master hug and whatever. While the ship goes down. I'm just being realistic.

Simone: Well, but hold on. So you're saying this, but earlier you were saying that you expected there to be a lot of like international conflict within the continent of Africa.

Simone: So

Malcolm: I do. Yeah. The. When groups get well actually I don't know. What do you think? Do you think there will be more conflict? I guess what I've said is there's much more comfort with the idea of conflict that I've seen within my African friends. They're not as pussified as the West, I guess I'd say.

Malcolm: But I also think that war is a bad thing and that, I don't know. What do you think is going to happen?

Simone: I think that there will be conflict. I, I just in general, I feel [00:22:00] like we can expect that it's easier to count on that and then to not count on that. And I do get this impression that there's more of a, like a tolerance for intergroup conflict than in Africa than there has been.

Simone: In other regions recently but at the same time, I'm not really sure. This sounds terrible.

Simone: I mean, I would definitely say that our experience traveling in Africa totally changed the way that we looked at the whole continent, right? Yes, we went to

Malcolm: Johannesburg and we went traveling in the various townships, you know, meeting with the local authorities in various of the poorer townships. And it was, uh, really eye opening for us in terms of how bad things were in getting to interview the people actually living in these communities, , and getting their perspectives.

Simone: Yeah, it was, it was sobering, it was sobering driving around and hearing about how like, property rights were managed. Um, but also like how in theory that should mean that anyone could be [00:23:00] able to get a house, but in practice that meant that people, there was like a huge housing crisis. Um, so yeah, I mean, of course we've learned a lot more since being there in person, but being there in person was insanely sobering. But what what I do keep thinking about as you describe all this is, I'm like, wow.

Simone: So like the Black Panther series is basically just the future. Europe's going to s**t the United States. I don't know. It's a wild card. Like Asia just appears to be evaporating, like rapturing. And then over here, like over time, you've got Africa just like slowly developing, slowly thriving.

Simone: In most ways, quite resilient in the face of sterilizing.

Malcolm: No, so it's not resilient. A lot of Africa is going to continue to circle the drink. Okay. That's the very point I'm making. I think people are one. Underestimating the depth and severity of poverty that some areas in Africa are going to face, even some classically developed areas.

Malcolm: For example, I think South Africa is going to completely collapse. Oh,

Simone: definitely. It's not going [00:24:00] in a good direction.

Malcolm: No but what I'm saying people are underestimating is everywhere is collapsing to an extent right now. Sure. There is more diversity of cultural groups for a. A resistant group to spring up from in these collapsed areas.

Malcolm: So I think most African countries right now are going to collapse from their current state into an even worse state. But I think if you're looking at further soil for something to then spring up from. I also think that the sheer diversity of cultural groups within these countries, they're resistant to woke ism, the fact that they don't have strong dysgenic selective pressures on them, and that they.

Malcolm: I think just mindset wise, much more okay with this idea of we are a cultural group. Like they see the world in terms of cultural groups, which are different from each other and interact with each other. And [00:25:00] that's the mindset that people need going into the future and that those cultural groups can exist within a country or trans nationally.

Malcolm: So I think historically the successful mindset with the nationalist mindset, which is to say one country, one people and I think that, that, that really worked. And I think that, that is not going to be the mindset that is successful in the future. It's my cultural group comes first, but I can build intergenerational alliances with other cultural groups.

Malcolm: And when you look at all of these things together even if you do believe in, genetic population differences between groups I think that, saying things that would cause African groups to build animosity to your group is probably not or not be able to build intergenerational alliances.

Malcolm: is a really bad intergenerational tactical decision for anyone to be making. So then

Simone: why are so many people who are also [00:26:00] commonly associated with pronatalists very commonly racist against Black people and or, but usually and, also anti Semitic? What's going on here?

Malcolm: So, one of the Are they jelly?

Malcolm: That's not, yeah, so, so this is the inter that might also be why there's so many Jewish background and black background pronatalist is our movement is the non anti semitic non racist against black iteration was, oh,

Simone: so we're just like disproportionately seeing

Malcolm: no, but I think that there's two things going on here.

Malcolm: So 1st, we need to remember that when we're talking about Africa, it's very different. And we could probably do a different episode on the American black population which is just culturally very different from the African population. Sure. I actually think that the, like when I think about my African friends, they're much closer culturally to my Indian friends than they are to my American black friends.

Malcolm: Would you say that, or would you say they're just so totally different? You can't even.

Simone: Yeah. They're just super different. They've some things in [00:27:00] common. Like many of my African friends are super like Catholic, for example. But there's all this other cultural background.

Simone: I don't know. Yeah I just see them as unique and really culturally robust and strong. And

Malcolm: wait, what was the question again? Oh yeah. So where is the antisemitism? The anti black stuff I think is coming from people who are just looking at inter population statistics and inter population differences, and they feel like they have found a piece of forbidden knowledge, and then they begin to build like Their identity around this forbidden knowledge because they're just so excited about it.

Malcolm: But they don't think five steps into the future of once people can, have access to genetic technology about declining IQ rates in the West and stuff like that. They're just not thinking into the future about all the implications of this forbidden knowledge that they've grasped to then there's the second thing, which I think is really true.

Malcolm: And I think that this is, to some extent, elucidated by the antisemitic sentiments. Which really remind me of BLM sentiments and stuff like that and the worst of wokeism, [00:28:00] which, which is if white people are economically outcompeting black people, it must be because they're cheating in some way.

Malcolm: It can't possibly be like a cultural difference. And it's the same thing with these, white, well, white supremacist groups, right? Which I think do play with genetic language sometimes, where they're like, well, if Jews are out competing me, it must be because they're cheating.

Malcolm: It can't possibly be any sort of cultural child rearing techniques or anything like that, or God forbid genetic differences. And so I, I think that a lot of it wouldn't that build animosity? If it is... It's the same reason that within the U. S. population, I think a lot of black people are like, yeah, let's work to improve.

Malcolm: Things that are going on within our larger cultural group I, I see problems here and here that are causing within our culture, black on black violence that are causing problems in our communities. And I think we can fix that. And then there's another group, which is just going to be like, no, if bad things are happening to us, it must be because other people are cheating.

Malcolm: And I think that to some extent that's [00:29:00] really where a lot of anti Semitism in these white groups comes from.

Simone: Okay, so it's not sour grapes just because those two groups appear to be more culturally cohesive and likely to inherit the future.

Malcolm: No. I do not, I genuinely do not think that they are aware.

Malcolm: So what they're looking at, like their world view of Africa. Is they're looking at things like what's happening in South Africa which is genuinely terrible and catastrophic and really sad, and the truth is we can't even... I can fully talk about it because if you mentioned some things like, farmers are being attacked or something like that, you're seen as like a crazy white supremacist when it's just, I'd encourage people let

Simone: me say this with South Africa, people are really missing the beat.

Simone: Like they immediately you can't talk about the collapse of South Africa. Without being racist, but I think they're totally missing the beat. And this is why I so admire that you wrote a book on governance. The problem with South Africa is bad governance. This was a bunch of very inept, corrupt people who have [00:30:00] really bad adverse incentives, who were trained by Soviets before all this happened.

Simone: There are so many governing reasons why this was all like, it was written. In

Malcolm: this, a lot of people when the post apartheid government came in. Like a Soviet training force went in and they were really buddy, buddy, and they were training them how to translate their state into a communist state, but because of.

Malcolm: Sort of the tribal identity and tribal conflicts. It worked even worse than it did in Russia.

Simone: Well, and there were all these, yeah, they were, yeah, they were injured, but we can't go too deep into this because what I'm saying is like the problem is, I think people are making this a racial thing when in most cases.

Simone: It's a governing thing. It's an incentives thing. It was the wrong people corrupting the wrong people and the wrong people getting power.

Malcolm: If you want to read on this, there's a really, what was the thing that you read? It was a book review that you were like, this is just really solid. I'll post a picture of it on YouTube.

Simone: Right. I think the best thing to read if you want like a [00:31:00] very quick snapshot of what went wrong in South Africa and why it went wrong. I recommend a book review written by a couple on Substack. It's called Review South Africa's Brave New World by R.

Simone: W. Johnson. So it's a book review of a history and it was a history written by. A formerly very pro end of apartheid activist who grew up in Africa around the 60s and then saw what happened to South Africa. And I think that's

Malcolm: yeah, we're going to be about this review is I think it shows you.

Malcolm: How long it's been hidden from the general public, how bad things have gotten in South Africa. I think some people have this perception that wokeism and this sort of

Simone: Really the wool being pulled

Malcolm: over our eyes. Like we began to really pull the wool over people's eyes systemically in like the past 10 years.

Malcolm: And that were that broadly, we knew what was going on in the world. Yeah. Not even anyone from my generation who reads this. We'll understand that Africa and people with like knowledge of things that knew [00:32:00] that South Africa had fundamentally failed and was on its path to becoming a failed state but we're not allowed to talk about it.

Malcolm: And so the general public believed that everything was hunky dory, yet all of the writing was on the wall that it was circling the drain and that really bad things were going to begin to happen. And it's really sad that we can't talk about what's actually going on in the world. But yeah, this is really interesting stuff.

Malcolm: And I think, but again, and I really need to emphasize this. The future of Africa is small cultural groups that do really well. The vast majority of Africa, I actually think will be worse off in the future than it is today, specifically because as globalism begins to fall apart and as international charity begins to fall apart.

Malcolm: I think a lot of cultural groups that had of course you're going to have cultural evolutionary pressures to begin to rely on those things. Who had begun to are going to are in for enormous hurt. And as the world's eye begins to move away from policing inter [00:33:00] group conflicts in Africa those conflicts are going to get worse in the short term, but I, where it all hashes out.

Malcolm: A lot of the world's winners, I'd say probably half of the world's winning cultural groups are probably going to come out of Africa. Just due to the sheer diversity of the continent. In literally every context, a thing can be diverse.

Simone: Yeah, I'm excited. Especially because the more people in different cultures.

Simone: In and from Africa we've encountered the more it's oh my gosh, this is this is gonna these are cultures that over time and with more and more technology are going to react in really interesting ways. So I'm excited. Yeah. I'm excited for the future,

Malcolm: but, yeah. Well, and here's one thing I'd really like to put a point on, because this is actually something I've seen.

Malcolm: So I've seen, you're talking about some people who are like, Into like genetics, but anti, anti black and these people seem like aware that IQ could be partially heritable or IQ is partially heritable. [00:34:00] But they then refuse to engage with the fact of how quickly a group would change an IQ if they begin to genetically select their offspring.

Malcolm: Right. They're like aware of one thing, but they do not want to engage in genetic selection themselves. So they blind themselves to the effects of genetic selection when you can choose to

Simone: act like your traits can only be what they are now or get worse is the assumption they make.

Malcolm: Yeah, well, and they have this weird assumption that through genetic sort of purity or going back to the way things used to be. So we've probably had dysgenic selective pressures on IQ in, in the Western world for a while. Like our ancestors were almost certainly smarter than us. Now the Flynn effect was hiding that I'm talking genetically speaking due to like poor nutrition due to like lead in the atmosphere and stuff like that.

Malcolm: Yeah. And so they are right that if you went back a generation if I took a clone of somebody from two to three generations ago, they'd probably [00:35:00] be smarter than people in our generation. This is people of, a European background. But what they're wrong is that isn't the only there is no way to do that other than just have kids that are, like, clones of your ancestors.

Malcolm: But what you can do is move forwards. using genetic technology to, to improve your cultural group. And that technology is accessible to anyone who's willing to use it. And I think that the reason they blind themselves to this is many of them are part of cultural traditions that have been able to keep birth rate high by being technophobic.

Malcolm: And so they are just like intrinsically against the idea of. Well, I love one of them, the Federalist wrote a piece on us and they were like, this sick family plays a game with their children where only the strongest get to survive. And I was like, one, that's what sperm do. So that's happening every time you have sex. A sick game where only your, genetically strongest descendants get to survive. But two so what? Even if we are engaging in [00:36:00] that, intergenerationally, how can you compete?

Malcolm: It's the most don't say that, Malco, you don't want me to say that?

Simone: No, it's fine.

Malcolm: A Sparta, got to do other ways of relating to kids, no, but the point being is that I suspect that given the cultural diversity within Africa, you're going to see many more that are open to ideas like this than the much more homogenous cultural traditions, which exists in the Western world.

Simone: Well, what I like is that basically. Not basically literally humanity started in Africa and humanity may jump to other planets from Africa and all these other like offshoots are like struggling flailing around and maybe not getting anywhere but they're playing the long game.

Malcolm: Well, they're not playing the long game. They just lucked into this position due to history. And most people in Africa that exist in Africa today, remember I'm saying their strengths [00:37:00] is the cultural diversity, which means I think 95% of cultural groups in Africa are going to do poorly.

Malcolm: Well, I think

Simone: that's the brutal thing that we love about diversity though, right? Is that we love it when there's a very large market. In which different enterprises compete because it means that only the very very best will win. That does lead to a world that is highly unequal, but that's also like how biology works.

Malcolm: So, well, and then hopefully the world can reach a level of prosperity where the inequality is irrelevant. That's the idea of capitalism, right? We do that. You eventually reach a level of prosperity where even, relatively poor people are living better than middle income people in like a communist country.

Malcolm: Oh, sorry. Well, I love you Simone. This has been a fascinating conversation. And very different than most of the ones you're going to hear in this space, I think.

Simone: Yeah, definitely. I don't hear anyone. At least in the circles that we follow talking much about Africa at all. If they're not like paternalistic [00:38:00] talking about how they're going to quote unquote save people there from disease.

Simone: So that's depressing.

Malcolm: I think they're looking at which in our worldview is largely pointless.

Simone: Yeah. So, and well, I respect the view, but I also love looking at the long term and the upside, so this was fun. I love you a lot, Malcolm. Thank you. Love you too.

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