This conversation is with Indra Adnan, psycho social therapist and founder of the Alternative UK. Indra and the Alternative support CAN (Community Action Networks) globally as an alternative or parallel polis to the current political system. One that is vibrant, alive, bottom up and most importantly it's already happening. We speak about the current state of politics, political change from the bottom up, the concept of Ada, technocraty vs humanity, why relationships are primary and the importance of attention. This discussion is wide ranging and points to several design principles for building a movement that can change the world. Indra is also the author of The Politics of Waking up on the topic.