Rust in Production

Zoo with Jessie Frazelle

Dec 12, 2024

In this insightful discussion, Jessie Frazelle, CEO of Zoo and a former engineer at Microsoft, Docker, and Google, shares her vision for transforming hardware design tools. She highlights the shortcomings of current CAD tools and how Zoo aims to modernize these processes using Rust. The conversation touches on migrating from C++ to Rust, the challenges and advantages of Rust for software reliability, and the chaotic yet thrilling life of startup innovation. Frazelle also reflects on the importance of user-friendly code generation and the role of automation in hardware development.

01:04:54

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Episode guests

Jessie Frazelle

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Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Jessie Frazelle discusses Zoo's mission to modernize CAD tools, enabling efficient hardware design comparable to advancements in software engineering.

The integration of Rust within Zoo's infrastructure enhances code safety and performance, addressing limitations faced by traditional CAD systems.

Zoo aims to foster collaboration between engineers by creating tools that allow seamless interaction between design and coding workflows.

Deep dives

Jess Frosel's Journey into CAD Development

Jess Frosel, CEO of a startup called Zoo, has a rich background in programming and infrastructure tooling. Before founding Zoo, she worked extensively in Docker and Kubernetes, contributing to pivotal projects in the industry, which shaped her understanding of containerization. Frustrated with existing CAD tools that were outdated and inefficient, Jess and her co-founders initiated a project aimed at creating a more modern CAD engine. The motivation was to overcome limitations faced with conventional CAD systems that relied on archaic technology, often resulting in cumbersome operations and simulations.

Intro

4min

From KittyCAD to Zoo.dev: Evolution of a CAD Company

6min

Evolving GUIs: From Tauri to Electron in Mechanical CAD

2min

Navigating Code Reusability and Development Challenges

13min

Navigating Rust Compilation Challenges

9min

Navigating the Transition from C++ to Rust

22min

The Thrill of Innovation at ZOO

5min

The Importance of Reliability in Software Development

3min

Think about this: software engineers have modern code editors, parallel processing, continuous integration, and countless tools that make their work efficient. But hardware engineers? They're often working with single-threaded tools, limited automation, and workflows that haven't fundamentally changed in decades. Zoo is building the infrastructure to change that, creating a modern set of tools and APIs that will allow companies and engineers to build better hardware design tools and accelerate the development of physical products.

Today we're joined by Jessie Frazelle, CEO of Zoo (formerly KittyCAD), to talk about migrating core parts of Zoo's infrastructure to Rust, boring infrastructure, how Rust can help bridge the gap between software and hardware development, and how Zoo is building the foundation for the next generation of hardware development tools.

About Zoo

While software engineering has evolved with powerful tools and workflows, hardware design is still stuck 'the dark ages.' Zoo's mission is to make building hardware products as seamless as building software.

Zoo is working on everything from graphics engines to automated workflows for mechanical engineers, and they're even developing their own file format in collaboration with industry leaders. Their goal is to become the foundation that powers the next generation of hardware design tools, making it possible for individuals and small teams to build innovative solutions that were previously only possible within major companies.

About Jessie Frazelle

Jessie Frazelle is the CEO of Zoo and a former software engineer at Microsoft, Docker, and Google. She's a contributor to many well-known open-source projects and has a background in security, containers, and cloud computing. Jessie is also a prolific speaker and writer, and she's passionate about making technology fun and accessible to everyone.

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Links From The Episode (In Chronological Order)

LXC - Alternative Linux container tool
Oxide Computer Company - Jessie's previous startup
Relativity Space - Jordan's previous startup
Solidworks - CAD software used at Oxide
Parasolid - CAD kernel from the 1980s
OpenSCAD - A code to 3d model CAD software
fillet - rounded edges on objects
B-rep - representing 3d models by their boundaries instead of lots of triangles
ACM Queue: "A new era for mechanical CAD"
Tauri - Lightweight, Rust based Electron alternative
WebRTC - Real-Time communication for the web
igalia - Amazing WebRTC consultancy with the coolest nerds on the planet
NAPI-RS - Use Rust in NodeJS
Leptos - Build interactive web applications in Rust
Dioxus - Rust GUI toolkit for web, desktop, mobile, and more
Vulkan - low-level standardised graphics programming interface
CUDA - Nvidia's parallel computing interface
nTop - formerly nTopology, implicity modelling application
Nomad - container orchestration software from HashiCorp
KCL examples - Some examples of the KittyCAD Language
CXX - C++/Rust interop
STEP - CAD file format
glTF - JSON based 3d file format
ruststep - STEP parser using derive macros
schemars - Generate JSON schemas from Rust types
cargo-expand - expand Rust macros
dropshot - Oxide's OpenAPI server framework
zoo.dev: "Boring Infrasctructure" - Simplifying backend infrastructure with Rust
Rust in Production: Zed - Podcast episode with Conrad Irwin from Zed
tokio - Rust's most used async runtime
http crate - A general purpose library of common HTTP types
hyper - A protective and efficient HTTP library for all.
Rust in Production: Oxide - Podcast episode with Steve Klabnik from Oxide Computer Company
Clippy - Rust's official linter
anyhow - Error library for Rust applications
go generate - Generate Go files by processing source
Embedded.fm: "That Girl's Brain" - Podcast episode with Jessie
Adam Chalmers: "Making a Programming Language for 3D Design" - Recording of Adam's RustConf 2024 talk about KCL
winnow - nom, but better
nom - a parser combinator library
zoo.dev: "Introducing Delouse" - Zoo's async debugging framework
The Soul of a New Machine by Tracy Kidder - Book recommended by Bryan Cantrill

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Rust in Production

Zoo with Jessie Frazelle

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Jess Frosel's Journey into CAD Development

Revolutionizing CAD with Modern Technologies

Creating a Unique CAD Kernel

Embracing Rust for Robust Development

The Broader Impact of Innovative Infrastructure

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts