The Gradient: Perspectives on AI

Michael Levin & Adam Goldstein: Intelligence and its Many Scales

Nov 2, 2023

Michael Levin & Adam Goldstein discuss diverse intelligence, unconventional embodiments, failure of life-machine distinction, the concept of self, the combination problem in cognitive function, regenerative medicine, and the relationship between computation, intelligence, and moral concerns.

57:21

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Episode guests

Michael Levin

Adam Goldstein

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Recognizing intelligence in unconventional embodiments and spaces is crucial for a mature understanding of cognition and artificial intelligence.

Focusing solely on replicating human intelligence overlooks other types of intelligence and raises questions of substrate independence.

Information flows, rather than reductionist approaches, are critical for understanding and manipulating complex biological systems.

Deep dives

Diverse conceptions of intelligence

Intelligence is not limited to human cognition, but exists in different spaces beyond our anthropocentric perspective. Professor Michael Levin argues that recognizing intelligence in unconventional embodiments and spaces is crucial for a mature understanding of cognition and artificial intelligence (AI). Adam Goldstein adds that intelligence can be found in transcription space, physiological space, and linguistic space. Expanding our notion of intelligence allows for new possibilities in AI and regenerative medicine.

Introduction

3min

Exploring Intelligence and Self

29min

Intelligence at Multiple Scales and Cell Behavior

10min

Cellular Collectives: Navigation and Problem-solving

6min

Regenerative Medicine and the Role of Living Tissue

5min

Computation, Intelligence, and Moral Concern

5min

In episode 97 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Michael Levin and Adam Goldstein.

Professor Levin is a Distinguished Professor and Vannevar Bush Chair in the Biology Department at Tufts University. He also directs the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts. His group, the Levin Lab, focuses on understanding the biophysical mechanisms that implement decision-making during complex pattern regulation, and harnessing endogenous bioelectric dynamics toward rational control of growth and form.

Adam Goldstein was a visiting scientist at the Levin Lab, where he worked on cancer research, and is the co-founder and Chairman of Astonishing Labs. Previously Adam founded Hipmunk, wrote tech books for O'Reilly, and was a Visiting Partner at Y Combinator.

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Outline:

* (00:00) Intro

* (02:37) Intros

* (03:20) Prof. Levin intro

* (04:26) Adam intro

* (06:25) A perspective on intelligence

* (08:40) Diverse intelligence — in unconventional embodiments and unfamiliar spaces, substrate independence

* (12:23) Failure of the life-machine distinction, text-based systems, grounding, and embodiment

* (16:12) What it is to be a Self, fluidity and persistence

* (22:45) The combination problem in cognitive function, levels and representation