TCC Podcast #82: Slow Down on Your Climb to the Top with Eman Zabi

Copywriter Eman Zabi joined Kira and Rob for the 82nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we had a great conversation. She became a copywriter a little over a year ago, but in that time has accomplished more than many writers with several years of experience. We talked about her experience in The Copywriter Accelerator and Think Tank and what she’s done to grow her business to the point where she’s working with major outdoor consumer brands. Here are a few of the topics we covered: •  how she went from star engineering student to copywriter (with a stop at the UN along the way) •  what the early days of starting her own business •  what she’s learned from the copywriters she’s surrounded herself with •  what she’s done to stand out online (her SEO secrets) •  why she cut the number of projects she will work in half •  how she’s raised her prices and didn’t worry about “paying her dues” •  how she goes after the clients that she wants to work with •  what you have to know to write in the outdoor industry •  why she threw away her entire list (every single name) and started over •  her thoughts about creating a signature service •  how she deals with clients who think she’s too young •  why she adopted a penguin, two tigers, a great white shark and a llama last year •  how she built a beautiful website for just $47 (and some tears and caffeine) •  why she moved half way around the globe last year •  climbing Kilimanjaro and what she learned from the experience •  how branding can make a big difference for copywriters We also talked with Eman about her best advice to copywriters who are just starting out. And what she shared sounded good to us. To hear the whole discussion, simply click the play button below, or scroll down to read the full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Mount Kilimanjaro Ban Ki-moon The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Lessons from Kilimanjaro Wix MooseJaw Sean D’Souza Hillary Weiss Laura Belgray Eman’s Twitter The Outdoor Copywriter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 82 as we chat with freelance copywriter Eman Zabi, about how she got into copywriting, dealing with clients who think she’s too young, choosing her niche to rebranding to reach her ideal clients, and what it’s like to stand on top of Mt. Kilimanjaro. Kira: Welcome, Eman! Rob: Hey, Eman. Eman: Hey, thank you! Kira: Great to have you here! So, we’ve been able to get to know you—we’ve had the privilege of getting to know you—over the past, well almost year, through the Accelerator Program, and then now through The Copywriter Think Tank. So we’re excited to kind of dig into your past, and your copywriting, and your business a bit more. A good place to start is with your story. So, how did you end up in copywriting? Eman: So that’s a funny story, actually. I kind of started off as like every brown parent’s dream, because as a kid, I was like making websites at eight; I was building radios and Morse Code oscillators; and I was going to be an engineer, and I was going to be a great engineer. And then like I started writing, and then I got something published by Bloomsbury at eleven, and then I ended up at the U.N. at fifteen, and then I’m like, “Oh my goodness. I don’t want to be an engineer anymore.” And my parents were devastated. And then I went into politics, and you can’t get a job in politics. I was unemployed; there was no way I was going to get a job with a degree in international politics. And, the market’s really bad so I couldn’t get a job, and I started blogging about Kilimanjaro, and then people were like, “Hey, you’re a half-decent writer; maybe you should write and get paid for it.” And Priscilla from The Copywriter Club actually—she’s in the group, and she sent me a link to the podcast. She’s like, “This might interest you.” Kira: Oh! Eman: And that’s basically how I got started. I like binge-listened to like twenty episodes in less than a week, and I’m like, “Okay, that’s it. I’m going to be a copywriter.” So, being here’s kind of a full circle for me. Rob: I did not know that. Kira: I didn’t know that either!! Yeah! Rob: Yeah. This kind of feels like a proud parent moment in a way. Eman: Laughs. Kira: Laughs. Group hug! Rob:  Yeah, it’s totally cool! So tell us the kind of writing that you’re doing right now. Eman: At the moment I’m primarily working with people in the outdoor industry, which is so great for me, because I live and breathe it. So a lot of the clients that I’m working with right now, they’re women who are trying to make the outdoor industry more inclusive, and it’s just such an important thing to me, and it’s such a personal cause to me. And also with businesses who are trying to do more than just make a profit. And yeah. Kira: So I want to back up to, you said—you kind of skimmed over—you were published at fifteen, and then you ended up at the U.N. So like, what was that craziness that happened, and how did you get to the U.N. at age fifteen? Eman: I was doing a lot of debate in the local circuits. I was like national champion, and then I got into like the M.U.N. circuit—Model of United Nations circuit—and then, I got picked to go to the United Nations and present a paper that I wrote about sustainable forest management, and yeah. I got a little award from Ban Ki-moon, which is pretty great. So I peaked at fifteen, basically. Kira: Laughs. Rob: Yeah, not—not at all. Eman: Laughs. Rob: And then you went and you studied politics at university? Eman: Yes, yeah. Rob: Cool. So I’m still trying to like, get my head around the fact that you’re a copywriter because you listened to our podcast like, you know, I’m sitting here smiling, but... Eman: Laughs. Kira: You made Rob’s day! Rob: You have, you totally made my day. But, let’s talk about some of the things that you learned as you were listening to the podcast. What was it that you were listening to that made you think, “Hey yeah, I can do this, I want to do this”? Eman: So one of the things that I’ve always felt about writing is that it’s not just about sounding pretty and flowery, but it needs to be intentional. It’s needs to do something to the people that are reading it, and I really heard that when I listened to the people on the podcast. They were talking about it being really intentional, and crafting it with psychology, and that just blew my mind. I’m like, “This is kind of what I was grasping at my whole life,” and I felt like it was kind of my “ah-ha” moment, like, this is what I was supposed to be doing instead of like, graphing about trying politics and engineering and biology and like, everything else. This is what I felt like I was supposed to be doing. And I got that from your podcast. Rob: That’s so awesome. Eman: And no, they’re no paying me to say this. Kira: Laughs. Yes we are, yes we are. We will pay you. Rob: No, we’re not! Laughs. Eman: Laughs. Kira: So when did you listen to the podcast? Was this a year ago? Eman: So this was January last year...January, I’ve only been in business for a year now. Kira: Okay, so can we just talk about that? You’ve been in business for only a year. You’ve done really well, we’ve been able to see your growth. Can you just kind of share the highlight reel, like the growth over the last year? What surprised you the most over the last year? Eman: So I got my first client within a couple of days, but it was the craziest client on the planet and, ugh. Let’s not get into that. But, I made about $200 my first month, and I thought that was a huge deal, and once I started digging into the podcast and the Facebook group, I learned that there is so much potential to grow from this, and I just kind of went with it. And I was still not really taking it super seriously, but it wasn’t until like I did the Accelerator. Like, that was my, “Okay, I’m going to really buckle down and take this seriously” moment. And the Accelerator just changed everything for me. I’m in the Think Tank now and that made a huge difference as well, so it was really just going from low-budget clients who kind of like threw things at me at weird hours and expected me to be at their beck and call, to better clients who treated me like an equal, and that was really like the big transition for me. Rob: So this is something that we’ve talked about quite a bit on the podcast; also, you know, in the Accelerator, the Think Tank, but you are unlike a lot of copywriters just starting out who just try to kind of figure it out all on their own and they spend a lot of time I think, spinning their wheels instead of really investing in the learning and figuring it all out. Why did you jump onto the Accelerator, and try to figure it out so quickly? What’s different about you that so many other people seem to struggle with? Eman: So, there’s really not substitute for learning from people who’ve done exactly what you want to be doing, and learning from your peers who are ten steps ahead of you, and from you guys who, like, made it, you know? So like, for me, it was just paying to be in a room full of people who know exactly what they’re doing, and picking their brain at every opportunity, and being the sponge in the room, and sucking up all of their like brain juices....if that’s a word... Kira: Laughs. Rob: Or two words, sure. Eman: Or two words! That’s a thing.