Inside Rocket Companies: M&A, Metrics, and Mortgage Moats | Brian Brown

Dec 15, 2025

Brian Brown, CFO of Rocket Companies and a seasoned M&A leader, shares insights on how Rocket evolved into a comprehensive fintech powerhouse. He elaborates on their unique approach to mortgage servicing as a way to enhance customer relationships and drive repeat business with impressively high recapture rates. Brian emphasizes the importance of storytelling in finance, debates the value of brand trust in high-stakes environments, and discusses the challenges and strategies behind public-to-public acquisitions.

01:18:26

forum

Ask episode

web_stories

AI Snips

view_agenda

Chapters

auto_awesome

Transcript

info_circle

Episode notes

insights

INSIGHT

Vertical Stack Reduces Friction And Cost

Rocket integrates fragmented homebuying layers into one vertically owned stack to remove friction for consumers.
Consolidation lets Rocket reduce costs and pass savings as lower rates, better fees, and faster closings.

insights

INSIGHT

Brand Matters In Low-Frequency High-Stakes Markets

Rocket invests in brand despite long customer purchase cycles because homebuying is a high-stakes, infrequent decision.
Trust and recall win big when consumers make their rare but major mortgage choices.

insights

INSIGHT

Servicing Is A CRM, Not Just A Payment Collector

Mortgage servicing creates monthly touchpoints that become a CRM to build long-term relationships.
Rocket keeps servicing to use payments as an ongoing relationship and marketing platform, not just a collection engine.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

How Rocket Monetizes Homeownership

05:17 • 2min

chevron_right

Consolidation Enables Better Consumer Value

Why Rocket Invests in Brand Trust

12:22 • 8min

chevron_right

Mortgage Servicing as Relationship Engine

20:43 • 23sec

chevron_right

Monetizing the Long Tail

21:06 • 2min

chevron_right

Recapture Rate as Competitive Advantage

22:53 • 3min

chevron_right

LTV, CAC and Repeat Borrowers

26:04 • 3min

chevron_right

Educational Content as Top-of-Funnel

28:48 • 2min

chevron_right

Financial Storytelling Is CFO Sales

30:56 • 5min

chevron_right

Finance People Can Be Strong Sellers

36:10 • 4min

chevron_right

Public-to-Public M&A Challenges

40:34 • 5min

chevron_right

Why Rocket Bought Redfin

45:25 • 7min

chevron_right

Getting Swarmed by Merger Arb Funds

52:19 • 3min

chevron_right

Forecasting During Macro Volatility

55:14 • 4min

chevron_right

Avoiding Forecast Fatigue with Automation

59:10 • 1min

chevron_right

Finance as Business Consultant

01:00:33 • 8min

chevron_right

Finance Tech Stack & AI Adoption

01:08:50 • 3min

chevron_right

Lessons from Dan Gilbert

01:11:32 • 5min

chevron_right

Hiring, Team Building, and Humility

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with Brian Brown, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer at Rocket Companies, to unpack how Rocket has built a differentiated, full-stack fintech business far beyond its mortgage roots. The conversation explores Rocket’s approach to long-tail monetization, the strategic importance of mortgage servicing, and how recapture rates become a durable competitive advantage in volatile rate environments. Brian shares lessons from leading complex M&A transactions, managing a business that reacts in real time to macro signals, and building a finance organization that prioritizes storytelling, strategy, and cross-functional thinking over pure accounting prowess. The result is a wide-ranging discussion on what traditional financial services companies can teach modern SaaS and fintech leaders about metrics, brand, and disciplined execution.

—

SPONSORS:

Sage Intacct is a cloud financial management platform that replaces spreadsheets, automates workflows, and keeps your books audit-ready as you scale. It unifies accounting, ERP, and real-time reporting for finance, retail, logistics, tech, and professional services. With payback in under six months and up to 250% ROI, and eight years as the customer-satisfaction leader, Sage Intacct helps you take control of your growth: https://bit.ly/3Kn4YHt

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

—

LINKS:

Brian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-brown-3aa37a8a/

Rocket Companies: https://rocket.com/

CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

From $500M Losses to $500M Profits: The CFO Who Helped Major League Baseball Win off the Field

https://youtu.be/7xw9qY2w5C4

—

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Preview and Intro

00:02:30 Sponsors — Sage Intacct | Mercury | RightRev

00:05:55 CJ’s Rocket Mortgage Fanboy Moment

00:07:13 How Rocket Mortgage Actually Makes Money

00:12:06 Investing in Brand Trust for Infrequent but High-Stakes Decisions

00:15:17 Mortgage Servicing as a Long-Term Relationship Engine

00:17:17 Sponsors — Tipalti | Aleph | Fidelity Private Shares

00:20:40 Why the Long Tail of Customer Relationships Is Underrated

00:23:01 Recapture Rate and Why Mortgage Loyalty Is Broken

00:25:23 Lower CAC Through Lifetime Value and Repeat Borrowers

00:30:55 Financial Storytelling as a CFO’s Real Job

00:33:03 Why CFOs Must Sell the Story, Not Just the Numbers

00:40:49 Public vs. Private M&A and Why Public Deals Are Harder

00:45:21 Redfin Acquisition Thesis and Top-of-Funnel Strategy

00:52:18 Being Swarmed by Merger Arb Funds Like Taylor Swift

00:55:18 How Rocket Forecasts in a Volatile Interest Rate Environment

00:58:04 Weekly Forecasting, Scenario Planning, and Avoiding Forecast Fatigue

01:00:32 Finance Teams as Business Consultants and Strategic Partners

01:02:23 Why CFOs Need a Seat at the Strategy Table

01:04:19 Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Leadership Mistake and Building Teams

01:05:58 Leadership Lessons on Team Size and Accountability

01:07:33 Advice to Younger Self and Slowing Down

01:08:49 Finance Software Stack and AI Tools

01:11:31 Lessons from Working with Dan Gilbert

01:16:58 Craziest Expense Story

01:17:55 Outro

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #CFOLeadership #FinanceStrategy #MergersAndAcquisitions #FinancialStorytelling

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Home Top podcasts Popular guests Top books