The Tim Ferriss Show
#568: Cal Newport — The Eternal Pursuit of Craftsmanship, the Deep Life, Slow Productivity, and a 30-Day Digital Minimalism Challenge
Episode guests
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Quick takeaways
- Slow productivity can still lead to immense contributions to scientific knowledge, as demonstrated by renowned scientists and mathematicians in the past.
- Balancing the overwhelming pressure of today's fast-paced world can be achieved by reintroducing the friction that existed in the past.
- Contemplation of matters of the soul, through engaging with philosophy, religion, and frameworks, can lead to a more meaningful and fulfilling life.
- Books challenging the prevailing productivity culture and encouraging slowing down remind us to align actions with personal values and intuitions.
- Engaging with existing moral technologies, such as religious or philosophical systems, can provide valuable insights for leading a resilient and enriched life.
Deep dives
Slow productivity in the past
In the past, renowned scientists and mathematicians demonstrated slow productivity by modern standards. Their progress on epic theories often spanned years, and communication between them took months. Despite the slow pace, their contributions to scientific knowledge were immense and achieved immortality.
Objections to slow productivity in modern times
Some may argue that the challenges and level of stimulation in the modern world make slow productivity impractical, citing the presence of social media platforms and accelerated communication. However, the friction that existed in past eras could be reintroduced to balance the overwhelming pressure of today's fast-paced world.
Contemporary examples of slow productivity
There are contemporary individuals who excel at slow productivity. Fiction writers like Dave Eggers and Neal Stephenson dedicate significant time to crafting their books, often working in environments free from distractions. Additionally, authors like John Grisham have established a lifestyle that prioritizes writing over constant availability and engagement, creating boundaries to focus on their craft.
Contemplation: Aligning Life with Moral Intuitions
Contemplation, or matters of the soul, is one of the four main categories of focused attention. It involves exploring and aligning one's life with the moral intuitions that arise when encountering certain behaviors, stories, or experiences. This can include engaging with philosophy, religion, or other frameworks that provide guidance on leading a meaningful and fulfilling life. The goal is to create a life that is aligned with these moral intuitions, allowing for resilience and richness in one's personal growth and values.
Anti-Productivity Books: Challenging Overwhelm
Books like 'How to Do Nothing,' 'Do Nothing,' 'Can't Even,' and 'Laziness Does Not Exist' offer perspectives that challenge the prevailing productivity culture and overwhelming busyness of modern life. These books explore the importance of slowing down, facing the hard stuff, and aligning actions with personal values and intuitions. They remind readers that it's essential to take quality leisure, contemplate matters of the soul, and strive for a deeper, more fulfilling existence.
Building Morality from First Principles
Building a moral framework from scratch can be a challenging task. Engaging with philosophy, religion, and theological ideas can provide valuable insights into aligning our lives with moral intuitions, which often arise from deep-rooted archetypes or intuitions shared among humans. Exploring existing moral technologies, such as religious or philosophical systems, allows us to benefit from the accumulated wisdom and trial-and-error of previous generations. Striving for alignment with these intuitions can lead to a more resilient and enriched life.
Crafting a Resonant Life Through Contemplation
The book 'All Things Shining' explores finding meaning in a secular age by examining the Western classics. It touches on the challenge of constructing morality from first principles and delves into the importance of craftsmanship as a source of sacredness in a secular world. The authors suggest that focusing on quality craftsmanship can provide a solid framework and contribute to a resonant and meaningful life. This idea aligns with the belief that finding purpose and fulfillment can be accomplished through engaging deeply with one's work and actively pursuing excellence.
The Importance of Frameworks and Rules in Religion
Humans seek frameworks and rules to deal with uncertainty and the paradox of choice in life. Religion provides a sense of structure and clarity by constraining the universe of things to think about. Despite not growing up religious, the speaker acknowledges the appeal of having strong religious conviction and the comfort it brings in navigating the complexities of life.
The Philosophy of Action in Religion and Secular Exploration
Religion is seen as a commitment to action, where insight and understanding come through experience and following specific rituals and practices. The speaker shares Karon Armstrong's argument that religion is not about assenting to empirically validated truths but about discovering truth through action. The importance of acting first and then gaining insight is contrasted with the idea of overthinking and rationalizing beliefs. The speaker ponders whether there are other ways, such as secular exploration and finding communities of character, for individuals who do not resonate with religion to navigate life's uncertainties.
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Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University who previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on the theory of distributed systems, while his general-audience writing explores intersections of culture and technology.
Cal is the author of seven books, including, most recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep Questions podcast.
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The one lesson from comedian, actor, author, and mean banjoist Steve Martin that hit Cal “like a lightning bolt.” [05:40]
What does it mean to be living “the deep life?” [08:17]
The story of Cal’s Study Hacks blog, why he needed to write his first three books, the unique way he went about securing his first book deal as an unproven 20-year-old, and how he signed with the agent who’s been with him for the past 20 years. [11:20]
What was Cal’s focus in high school and college? [24:03]
How did Cal consciously set out to sharpen his writing skills in college, and what part have humor and mathematics played in their evolution? [26:14]
What advice does Cal have for someone who wants to hone their funny bone for humor writing? [31:14]
Fresh thoughts on slow productivity. [40:47]
There’s no way to know if someone like Isaac Newton would have achieved greatness had he lived in the present day — when slow productivity isn’t the social default. But are there any contemporary examples of people who have mastered slow productivity in spite of 21st-century distractions? [46:36]
These days, Cal is well-known for eschewing the temptations of social media. But why did he initially refuse to sign up for Facebook when it was the shiny new thing everyone was talking about? [53:11]
Documents and disciplines Cal and I find instrumental in crafting the lives we desire. [58:41]
How Cal integrates seasonality into his routine for ample periods of downtime, where he roams to recharge and reset, and his pen of choice for taking notes both literary and mathematical. [1:06:11]
Why Cal and I are big fans of Scrivener software for writing. [1:13:37]
How Cal uses Trello to organize tasks under the different hats he wears throughout the day. [1:17:17]
Books in the “anti-productivity” category Cal thinks might be worth your while. [1:21:34]
Who was John Newport? [1:28:18]
Who Paul Tillich was, an explanation of the confusing term “Christian apologist,” and understanding why Cal describes himself as a concentration apologist. [1:30:53]
How does Cal focus on contemplation and matters of the soul? Why does he believe someone who’s quick to dismiss a philosophy or religion without trying to understand its most basic foundation does themselves a disservice? What are his thoughts on the takes Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson have on moral frameworks, and what need is satisfied by such contemplations? [1:33:06]
Considering the spiritual as an exercise of meticulous craft and creation, and understanding that some materials serve the purpose better than others. [1:41:09]
With so many options from which to choose, how might someone who has had either bad experiences with religion, no experience with religion, or no interest in religion explore spirituality? Are we programmed to seek out religion? [1:45:44]
Can you make it through Cal’s 30-day digital minimalism declutter? Here’s how to set the rules that are right for you and give it a whirl. [1:54:13]
What shutdown ritual does Cal use at the end of his workday? [2:03:06]
Parting thoughts. [2:05:07]
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