As we increasingly equate human worth with productivity, what does it mean to do nothing? That's the question Jenny Odell explores in her book, How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy. In it, she deftly draws on the work of artists, laborers, and writers, past and present, to discuss how others have grappled with this question. In attempting to clarify what she means by doing nothing, Jenny asks, "What's the difference between being allowed to be open...observant...reflective versus...constantly express[ing]...one's rage and anger...what if there's a part of you that deserves to remain unspoken, unarticulated in the moment?" In this conversation, Jenny offers ways to resist the attention economy, but she's careful to avoid easy answers. Though she acknowledges how privilege gives some of us more options to resist than others, she emphasizes how all of us, privileged or not, operate within this productivity-obsessed system. The fallout from our always-on culture is often exhaustion and anxiety, both of which Jenny sees in her students. She explains, "I can tell my students, 'Oh, just get better at time management.' That might help in some ways, but it's not going to help the...problem of this culture of productivity that was never humane to begin with." Jenny Odell is an artist, writer, and educator who teaches at Stanford University. She has been an artist-in-residence at the San Francisco dump, Facebook, the Internet Archive, and the San Francisco Planning Department, and she has exhibited her art all over the world. Simple Ways to Support the Podcast Subscribe so you'll never miss an episode Rate and review the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe Recommend the podcast to a friend or family member The Host You can learn more about Curious Minds Host and Creator, Gayle Allen, and Producer and Editor, Rob Mancabelli, here. Episode Links Eyeo Festival 2017 - Jenny Odell Gordon Hempton Radical Technologies by Adam Greenfield The Genius of Birds by Jennifer Ackerman Getting Back Together by Robert Houriet Walden Two by B. F. Skinner Thomas Merton Pilvi Takala - The Trainee Tehching Hsieh Diogenes Bartleby, the Scrivener Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport 1934 West Coast Longshoreman's Strike Laborfest David Hockney 4'33" by John Cage Peter Stephen Berg, bioregionalist Rebecca Solnit Janet Delaney, photographer iNaturalist app If You Liked This Interview, You Might Also Enjoy: Cal Newport on Digital Minimalism Emily Esfahani Smith on Creating a Meaningful Life Tim Wu on Reclaiming Our Attention Matthew Crawford on Individuality in an Age of Distraction Other Places to Find Curious Minds: Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google Play Overcast