Welcome to episode 41 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

This time, the presenters, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and journalist Jo Confino, discuss the forgotten art of resting and how to free the word ‘laziness’ from its Western slander – as an equivalent of torpor or sloth – through the wisdom of Zen Buddhist teachings. Also, what is the story behind the weekly ‘lazy day’ in Plum Village? How does laziness support the doing? Could laziness be the route to healing?

Brother Phap Huu shares the story of how ‘lazy day’ became part of the Plum Village tradition, along with advice that Thich Nhat Hanh gave about being in a state of laziness – one of the key attributes to a healthy and happy life. The Brother further touches upon setting the right intentions; clarity; true presence and the awkwardness of quiet; Thay’s openness; allowing ourselves to be cared for; constant busyness, what it’s like to face oneself, and learning to do nothing; and being mindfully… angry. And the surprise the presenters got when trying to record this episode about laziness on a lazy day.

Jo shares his experiences of a recent trip to New York and how to not get caught in the nonstop doing of large cities; laziness as an act of generosity; happiness as the avoidance of suffering; spaciousness; laziness as healing; and integrating lazy moments into a busy day for surprisingly creative results.

The episode ends with a reading from the ‘Lazy Day’ chapter of Thich Nhat Hanh’s book Happiness, and a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

‘The Art of Mindful Living’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/mindfulness-practice/

Clips: ‘What’s the Point of Doing Nothing?’
https://plumvillage.org/library/clips/the-art-of-being/

Dalai Lama
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama

The Art of Happiness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Happiness

Persimmon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong/

Mudra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra

Estes Park, Colorado
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estes_Park,_Colorado

Happiness: Essential Mindfulness Practices
https://www.parallax.org/product/happiness-essential-mindfulness-practices/

Quotes

“In quietness we can recognize new things.”

“If we’re constantly in planning mode – especially those who have busy working weeks – we don’t give the space for anything to emerge. We don’t give a chance for spontaneity, for our creativity, for grace – or whatever we call it – to flow through us, because we’re always trying to be in control. And so, when we have space, another part of us shows up.”

“Western society has co-opted ‘laziness’ to be negative, but laziness gives us space. And in this space we are able to have meaningful insights and then be able to act differently. So it’s a powerful practice.”

“In today’s society, we can all identify that we have a restlessness habit. We don’t know how to be still. We don’t know how to do nothing.”

“Even if we are given a day to rest or a vacation, sometimes we make our vacation busier than it should be and we get even more tired. And there is such a habit in us, transmitted to us by maybe our ancestors, our culture, our society, that we shouldn’t be still; that there is not enough time to live. So we should be doing, doing, doing, and doing. Therefore, from these energies and these habits, we have a lot of tension, we have a lot of anxiety, we don’t know how to rest and so are not able to be present. And when we’re not able to be present for ourselves, for our bodies, for our loved ones, can we actually say that we are alive? Can we actually experience life to the fullest if we’re not present?”

“It’s only when we touch our suffering that we can go through it.”

“Laziness gives us a chance to meet ourselves, because so much of our life is looking outward and receiving input from outside. But when we’re with ourselves, we have to experience many parts of ourselves. And it’s only when we do that that we can heal. So it feels like laziness is the route to healing.”

“Freedom comes from inside, but we need [the right] conditions, so the lazy day allows us to learn to be with oneself.”

“Part of our tradition is Zen, and Zen has meditation, and to meditate we have to learn to be still in order to stop. And what are we stopping? We’re stopping our habit and energy of running, whether it is in our minds or in our body. And so learning to be still is an art. It’s a wonderful art and it is actually a very difficult training.”

“The first thing people do is look for interaction: ‘Okay, I have space and time now, let’s go talk to someone.’ And that is also covering up loneliness in us or covering up the emptiness that can be there. But if you actually listen to the space and the time, you may be able to really get in touch with the simple wonders of life.”

“We know that breath is also an energy – so talking takes a lot of energy. This lazy day has been prescribed for our community to learn to rest and heal.”

“It’s like when there’s a forest fire: to stop the fire from burning they create a firebreak, a space the flames can’t jump over to continue the fire. It’s as if, when we’re consumed by fire, we need to create a space the flames cannot leap over and continue to burn our relationships or burn ourselves. So we have to create breaks where the flames of our lives will diminish and be put out.”

105: Interview with Laura Dennison