A decade of 'nudge' - in conversation with the pioneers (part 1 of 2)
Apr 23, 2021
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Join Richard Thaler, Cass Sunstein, and Maya Shankar in this special episode celebrating the 10 year anniversary of the Behavioural Insights Team. They discuss the origins of 'nudge', the role of behavioral insight strategies in government agencies, using experimental methods for positive outcomes, Richard's involvement with the White House, regrets and trade-offs in policy-making, and the global impact of the UK Behavioral Insights Team.
'Nudge' has evolved over the last decade, applying behavioral economics to tackle society's biggest problems.
The integration of behavioral science into policy making requires experimental methods and action even with limited evidence.
Deep dives
The Origins of Behavioral Science and the Nudge Concept
The podcast episode begins by introducing the guests, Professor Richard Thaler, Professor Cass Sunstein, Dr. Maya Shankar, and Professor David Halpin, who discuss the growth of behavioral science over the past decade. Thaler and Sunstein co-authored the book 'Nudge' in 2008, which sparked a global movement. They explain how their work led to the creation of the behavioral insights team. They also discuss the importance of choice architecture and how small changes in behavior can have significant impacts, highlighting examples like the automatic enrollment of poor children in free school meals and behaviorally informed fuel economy standards.
The Impact of Behavioral Science in Policy Making
The podcast explores the role of behavioral science in policy making, particularly in the White House during the Obama administration. Dr. Maya Shankar shares her experience as part of the Office of Science and Technology Policy, where the team worked to integrate behavioral science into various government agencies. She discusses two examples of their work: motivating veterans to access education and employment benefits and implementing active choice in the military's retirement savings plan. The guests emphasize the importance of experimental methods, A/B testing, and the value of making policy decisions even with limited evidence.
The Challenges and Regrets in Behavioral Science Policy Implementation
The guests reflect on the challenges and regrets faced in implementing behavioral science policies. Cass Sunstein expresses regret over the timing of their climate change initiatives, which ended just before the next administration took office. He acknowledges the need for more focus on sludge reduction, reducing the burden of paperwork on individuals. Sunstein also discusses the trade-off between waiting for evidence and swift policy action, emphasizing the importance of taking action when there is even a 60% chance of success considering expected value. They also talk about the need for more data-driven approaches to understand the burden of sludge on specific demographics.
The Future of Behavioral Science in Policy Making
The podcast ends by discussing the future of behavioral science in policy making. The guests highlight the importance of thinking big and focusing on issues where substantial gains can be made, such as climate change and reducing poverty. They mention the power of automatically enrolling people in renewable energy programs as a nudge that can have significant impacts. The UK's behavioral insights team is praised for their experimental competence and policy savvy. The guests offer advice to incoming administrations to think beyond tweaks and focus on domains where significant improvements can be achieved.
Part 1 of a very special episode of Inside the Nudge Unit, recorded to tie in with the recent 10 year anniversary of the Behavioural Insights Team. Join our CEO, Professor David Halpern, with the founders and pioneers of behavioural economics, Professor Richard Thaler, Professor Cass Sunstein and Google’s head behavioural scientist Dr Maya Shankar, discussing how ‘nudge’ has evolved over the last decade and where the science of human behaviour is headed next.
Richard Thaler is the Charles R. Walgreen Distinguished Service Professor of Behavioral Science and Economics at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business and the 2017 recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his contributions to behavioural economics. He has been at the forefront of research into psychology of decision-making and economics for over two decades and is the co-author of the international best seller Nudge: Improving Decisions about Health, Wealth, and Happiness in which the concepts of behavioural economics are applied to tackle many of society’s biggest problems.
As well as being co-author of the best-seller Nudge, Cass Sunstein is the founder and director of the Program on Behavioral Economics and Public Policy at Harvard Law School and Chair of the World Health Organization’s technical advisory group on Behavioural Insights and Sciences for Health. From 2009 to 2012, he was Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, and served on President Barack Obama’s Review Board on Intelligence and Communications Technologies and on the Pentagon's Defense Innovation Board.
Maya Shankar is Google’s Global Director of Behavioral Economics and joined Cass Sunstein as a Senior Advisor within the Obama White House administration where she founded and served as Chair of the White House's Behavioral Science Team — a team of scientists charged with improving public policy using research insights about human behavior. Maya completed a post-doctoral fellowship in cognitive neuroscience at Stanford after receiving a Ph.D. from Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship and a B.A. from Yale in cognitive science.