In 'The Road to Wisdom,' Francis Collins reminds us of the four core sources of judgment and clear thinking: truth, science, faith, and trust. Drawing on his work from the Human Genome Project and his tenure as the director of the National Institutes of Health, as well as on ethics, philosophy, and Christian theology, Collins makes a robust case for each of these sources—their reliability and their limits. He shows how these foundations of wisdom work together, not separately, and certainly not in conflict. The book provides a moral, philosophical, and scientific framework to address contemporary issues such as distrust of public health, partisanship, racism, climate change, and threats to democracy, while also guiding readers in their daily lives.
In 'The Abolition of Man', C.S. Lewis delivers a defense of objective value and natural law, originating from his Riddell Memorial Lectures at the University of Durham in 1943. Lewis argues that education should be conducted within the context of moral law and objective values, which he terms the 'Tao'. He criticizes modern attempts to debunk these values, warning that such actions could lead to a dehumanization of society, resulting in what he calls 'Men without Chests' – individuals whose emotions have not been trained to conform to reason. The book emphasizes the universal nature of traditional moralities across different cultures and warns against the dangers of moral relativism and the reduction of human beings to mere objects of scientific analysis[2][4][5].
In 'Mere Christianity', C.S. Lewis argues for the existence of God and defends Christian theology. The book is divided into four parts: the first argues for the existence of God based on the 'law of human nature'; the second defends Christian theology, including the 'Liar, lunatic, or Lord' trilemma regarding Jesus Christ; the third explores Christian ethics, including the cardinal and theological virtues; and the fourth discusses the Christian conception of God, particularly the Holy Trinity. Lewis also addresses topics such as free will, morality, sexual ethics, and the institution of marriage. The book is known for its clear and logical presentation of Christian apologetics and has been praised for its straightforward and humorous writing style[1][2][4].
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andrewsullivan.substack.comFrancis is a physician and geneticist whose work has led to the discovery of the cause of cystic fibrosis, among other diseases. In 1993 he was appointed director of the Human Genome Project, which successfully sequenced all three billion letters of our DNA. He went on to serve three presidents as the director of the National Institutes of Health. The author of many books, including The Language of God, his latest is The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith, and Trust.
Our conversation was entirely agreeable until we talked about trust, and his own handling of the Covid epidemic. I asked him in depth about the lab-leak theory and why he and Tony Fauci passionately dismissed it from the get-go, even as it now appears to be the likeliest source of the terrible virus. Things got intense.
For two clips of our convo — intense debate on the “Proximal Origin” paper outright denying a lab leak as the source of Covid-19, and Francis finding God after decades of atheism — pop over to our YouTube page.
Other topics: growing up on a rustic farm in Shenandoah; his parents creating a community theater; homeschooled until 6th grade; his amazing scientific accomplishments as a young adult; his scientism; his terminally ill Christian patients; the AIDS crisis; C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity; the First Mover question; Ross Douthat and “fine-tuning”; the multiverse; the limits to the materialist view; deism; cradle believers vs converts; evolution and sacrificial altruism; Socrates; Jesus dying for our sins; the doubting Thomas; how angels manifest; Francis Bacon; Richard Dawkins; being the NIH director during Covid; trust and mistrust in science; the early confusion in pandemics; tribalism; dismal safety standards at the Wuhan lab; gain-of-function; EcoHealth and Peter Daszak; intel agencies on lab leak; furin cleavage sites; Kristian Andersen; geopolitical fears over Trump and China; the opacity of the CCP; the Great Barrington Declaration; Trump threatening science funding at the Ivies; In Covid’s Wake; and if Francis has any regrets after Covid.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Claire Lehmann on the woke right, Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee on Covid’s political fallout, Byron York on Trump 2.0, Robert Merry on President McKinley, Sam Tanenhaus on Bill Buckley, Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson on the Biden years, and Paul Elie on his book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.
The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan 
