Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

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Stephen Dubner Returns Again

Oct 22, 2025

Guest

Stephen J. Dubner

Stephen Dubner, award-winning journalist and author of Freakonomics, explores intriguing topics that blend social psychology and technology. He delves into the evolutionary role of disgust and its potential for social danger. The ethics of berating AI sparks debate, revealing the duality of human emotions. Reflecting on two decades of Freakonomics, Dubner discusses his commitment to transparency in journalism, while emphasizing empathy over contempt in divisive times. With insights on AI's future role in writing, he contemplates how automation might reshape human purpose.

01:49:55

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ANECDOTE

Bidets, Chocolate, And Live Show Bits

Dubner recalls discomfort and humor around studio lighting and props, riffing about bidets and live show games.
He uses playful anecdotes to illustrate how disgust framing sticks with people.

insights

INSIGHT

Disgust's Dual Role

Disgust is evolutionarily necessary but becomes dangerous when directed at people rather than objects.
Stephen Dubner warns disgust gets weaponized and fuels extreme social divisions.

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ADVICE

Iterate Prompts When Using AI

Use AI as an interactive research tool and push it with targeted prompts for richer output.
Dubner recommends iterating prompts to shift tone, depth, or domain-specific focus when prepping interviews.

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Welcoming Stephen Dubner

04:13 • 7min

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Translating Skills to TV

10:45 • 1min

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Disgust: Evolutionary Function and Social Danger

12:10 • 4min

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Using AI to Prep Interviews

16:27 • 2min

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Ethics of Yelling at AI

18:43 • 2min

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Revisiting Freakonomics After 20 Years

20:51 • 3min

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Admitting Mistakes and Journalistic Duty

23:50 • 3min

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Abortion, Crime, and Unwantedness

26:46 • 3min

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Online Binary Thinking and Explanatory Depth

Defining Terms to Break Tribal Arguments

37:43 • 7min

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Reduce Contempt, Increase Empathy

44:55 • 6min

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Could a Political Moratorium Help?

50:32 • 4min

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Opting Out of Attention-Economy Incentives

54:08 • 7min

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Will AI Ever Co-Author Books?

Future of Work and Human Purpose

01:07:49 • 5min

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Sustaining Creativity Over Time

01:12:21 • 3min

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Travel Anecdotes: Motorcycle Trip and Salad Bars

01:15:43 • 5min

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Roadside Observations and Odd Restaurant Waits

01:20:14 • 5min

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Cider-Donut Economics and Line Workarounds

01:25:36 • 4min

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Couples Massage, Boundaries, and Context

01:29:37 • 10min

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Hair-Play, Friendship Rituals, and Intimacy

01:39:56 • 11min

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Fact-Check: History, Money, and Animal Facts

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When to Rob a Bank

...And 131 More Warped Suggestions and Well-Intended Rants

Steven D. Levitt

Stephen J. Dubner

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Freakonomics

A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything

Andrea Montero Cusset

Steven D. Levitt

Stephen J. Dubner

Freakonomics is a collaboration between economist Steven D. Levitt and journalist Stephen J. Dubner that delves into the riddles of everyday life, from cheating and crime to parenting and sports. The book argues that economics is fundamentally the study of incentives and how people get what they want or need, especially when others want or need the same thing. It covers various topics such as the inner workings of a crack gang, the truth about real estate agents, and the secrets of the Ku Klux Klan, using forceful storytelling and wry insight to challenge conventional wisdom.

Stephen Dubner (Freakonomics, When to Rob a Bank, Freakonomics Radio) is an award-winning journalist, author, and radio host. Stephen returns once again to the Armchair Expert to discuss the power and necessity of disgust, the ethics of yelling at AI, and reflecting on the 20th publishing anniversary of Freakonomics. Stephen and Dax talk about being prodded by society into binary thinking, the compulsions in being perpetually online that don’t jibe with human nature, and what he does when presented with a ‘for us or against us’ argument. Stephen explains the concept of the illusion of explanatory depth, why during these times he’s in give-a-stranger-a-hug mode, and being exhausted in a good way about this human world.

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