The Lawfare Podcast Lawfare Daily: Civ-Mil Relations: Where Are We Now and How Did We Get Here?
Dec 23, 2025
In this engaging discussion, Kori Schake, a civil-military relations expert from the American Enterprise Institute, and Carrie Lee from the German Marshall Fund delve into the intricacies of civilian oversight and military ethics. They explore the erosion of democratic norms and civilian control, emphasizing the military's challenges amidst political pressures. Both highlight the importance of accountability in leadership and identify key indicators to monitor for a healthy civil-military relationship. Their insights make for a compelling examination of one of today's most pressing governance issues.
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Civilian Control Is Working As Designed
- Civilian control is tested by firing generals and military compliance with political leadership.
- The US military has repeatedly accepted civilian decisions even when it judged them suboptimal.
Three Pillars Of Healthy Civ‑Mil Relations
- Healthy civ-mil relations rest on three overlapping principles: civilian control, public legitimacy, and the profession of arms.
- All three normally reinforce each other, but they are currently in conflict.
Norm Erosion Creates Successive Crises
- The current moment is unique because these civ‑mil principles often conflict and norms are being openly broken by civilians.
- This norm erosion leaves the military uncertain how to respond and produces successive crises.