Can decades-old management philosophy actually help us tackle AI’s biggest challenges?
In this episode, John Willis, a foundational figure in the DevOps movement and co-author of the DevOps Handbook, takes us through Dr. W. Edwards Deming’s System of Profound Knowledge and its surprising relevance to today’s most pressing challenges. John reveals how Deming’s four-lens framework—theory of knowledge, understanding variation, psychology, and systems thinking—provides a practical approach to managing complexity.
The conversation moves beyond theoretical management principles into real-world applications, including incident management mistakes that have killed people, the polymorphic nature of AI agents, and why most organizations are getting AI adoption dangerously wrong.
Key topics discussed:
- Deming’s System of Profound Knowledge and 14 Points of Management—what they actually mean for modern organizations
- How Deming influenced Toyota, DevOps, Lean, and Agile (and why the story is more nuanced than most people think)
- The dangers of polymorphic agentic AI and what happens when quantum computing enters the picture
- A practical framework for managing Shadow AI in your organization (learning from the cloud computing era)
- Why incidents are “unplanned investments” and the fatal cost of dismissing P3 alerts
- Treating AI as “alien cognition” rather than human-like intelligence
- The missing piece in AI conversations: understanding the philosophy of AI, not just the technology
Timestamps:
- (00:00:00) Trailer & Intro
- (00:02:27) Career Turning Points
- (00:05:31) Why Writing a Book About Deming
- (00:12:53) Deming’s Influence on Toyota Production System
- (00:19:31) Deming’s System of Profound Knowledge
- (00:28:12) The Importance of Systems Thinking in Complex Tech Organizations
- (00:31:43) Deming’s 14 Points of Management
- (00:44:17) The Impact of AI Through the Lens of Deming’s Profound Knowledge
- (00:49:56) The Danger of Polymorphic Agentic AI Processes
- (00:53:12) The Challenges of Getting to Understand AI Decisions
- (00:55:43) A Leader’s Guide to Practical AI Implementation
- (01:05:03) 3 Tech Lead Wisdom
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John Willis’ Bio
John Willis is a prolific author and a foundational figure in the DevOps movement, co-authoring the seminal The DevOps Handbook. With over 45 years of experience in IT, his work has been central to shaping modern IT operations and strategy. He is also the author of Deming’s Journey to Profound Knowledge and Rebels of Reason, which explores the history leading to modern AI.
John is a passionate mentor, a self-described “maniacal learner”, and a deep researcher into systems thinking, management theory, and the philosophical implications of new technologies like AI and quantum computing. He actively shares his insights through his “Dear CIO” newsletter (aicio.ai) and newsletters on LinkedIn covering Deming, AI, and Quantum.
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