Ep. 140 (Part 1 of 2) | Author, psychiatrist, professor, and Deep Transformation podcast co-host Roger Walsh was drawn to explore the remarkable world of shamanism—a tradition of opening to altered states, intuition, and profound insights and wisdom—when he found it was the one great world tradition he didn’t understand. He was intrigued by Romanian scholar Mircea Eliade’s description of the core feature of a shaman being “ecstatic flight,” and recognizing the lack of any easy to understand book on the subject, Roger was inspired to pursue this subject in depth and write the book himself! In his book and in this conversation, Roger provides us with a brilliant, big picture perspective, pointing out that at the heart of shamanism (and every great world tradition) are psychospiritual technologies—actual practices—that lead us to the doorway of the Great Mystery, and that service is the culmination of each tradition, both as a means to and an expression of one’s realization.

The dialogue is warm, open, and personal—Roger shares his experience of realizing the vastness of the inner world for the first time (“I felt like I’d lived my entire life on the top six inches of a wave on top of an ocean I didn’t even know existed!”), his realization that “as a culture, we are sleepwalking through life, unaware of the resources, capacities and gifts we bear within us,” and his coming to terms with the Great Mystery. John, too, shares his experiences within the Native American spiritual tradition: the power of the vision quest, prayer, drumming in ceremony, death medicine, and enduring trials in service to one’s people. Roger’s wonderful curiosity, integrity, graciousness, and keen intellect are all in evidence as he discusses the indeterminacy of spirit, mediumship, journeying, and death, and as he marvels at the bottomless, boundless mystery that both surrounds us and is us. Recorded June 27, 2024.

“Not only does the Great Mystery surround us, but we are Mystery—our own being is Mystery.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

• The ethos of service at the heart of shamanism (00:55)
• Service is the culmination of shamanism—and every world tradition—both as a means to and an expression of one’s realization (02:20)
• Opening to the Great Mystery: we really don’t know what is going on (05:06)
• Castaneda’s 4 challenges to becoming a person of knowledge, particularly the challenge of clarity (09:08)
• Transconceptual intuition and Ken Wilber’s vision-logic (12:11)
• What about death? (16:21)
• Shamans were our first general practitioner, spiritual guide, tribal counselor, psychopomp, all rolled into one (18:04)
• How did humans discover this tradition? (20:04)
• What is a spirit? A construct of the psyche? An independent intelligence? (21:41)
• The powerful effects of mediumship throughout human history (24:07)
• The spiritual practice of journeying (27:55)
• Bottom line: shamans tap into the depths of the psyche and take us to the doorway of Mystery, leaving us there with remarkable potentials and possibilities (29:49)

Resources & References – Part 2

• Joseph Campbell with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth*
• Carlos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don Juan*
• Ken Wilber’s vision-logic (Integral Life website)
• The Oracle of Delphi
• William Blake, British mystic
• Pearl Curran, who channeled the spirit of Patience Worth
• Helen Schucman, A Course of Miracles* (Foundation for Inner Peace)
• Charles Tart, Body Mind Spirit: Exploring the Parapsychology of Spirituality*
• Roger Walsh, The World of Shamanism: New Views of an Ancient Tradition* (2nd edition)
• Roger Walsh, Essential Spirituality: The 7 Central Practices to Awaken Heart and Mind*
• Roger’s website: https://drrogerwalsh.com

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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Dr. Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D. DHL, is an author and longtime professor of psychiatry, philosophy, anthropology, and religious studies. Roger’s research and writings span several areas, to include the nature of psychological health and well-being, meditation and contemplative practices, religion and spirituality, wisdom and other virtues, Integral studies, and the psychological roots of our current global crises. He is deeply immersed in contemplative practices as student, researcher, and teacher.

Roger’s books include Paths Beyond Ego (one of Common Boundary’s “Most Influential Books”), Meditation: Classic and Contemporary Perspectives (“Outstanding Academic Book of the Year Award”), Essential Spirituality: The Seven Central Practices with a foreword by the Dalai Lama, and The World of Shamanism. He is currently editing The World’s Great Wisdom: What Sages Say about Living Wisely and Well. 

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell