397. Why You Should Leave Total Depravity Behind with Mako Nagasawa

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Sep 29, 2025

Stephen (Other Guest / Co-host for episode)

Mako Nagasawa, founder and director of the Anastasis Center, shares profound insights on restorative justice and healing atonement, challenging traditional views on penal substitution. Joined by community moderator Stephen, they explore personal deconstruction journeys, the complexities of faith, and how parenting reveals tensions within punitive theology. Mako emphasizes that repentance must involve repair, not just forgiveness, and advocates for a restorative approach to justice that lowers recidivism and fosters understanding in a polarized society.

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INSIGHT

Atonement Is Historically Diverse

Penal substitutionary atonement is a relatively recent theological development compared with earlier restorative models.
Early church writers emphasized healing human nature rather than satisfying divine retribution.

INSIGHT

Jesus Restores Human Nature

Restorative atonement frames Jesus as sharing fallen human nature to restore healed human nature to us.
This model focuses on transformation and restoration rather than satisfying divine honor or wrath.

ANECDOTE

Parenting Models Restorative Response

Mako compares parenting responses to sibling conflict to how God might pursue restoration rather than punishment.
He argues parents seek repair and partnership, not first-person retributive anger.

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In today's episode, Tim engages in a profound conversation with Mako Nagasawa about restorative justice, healing atonement, and the complexities of faith. They explore various atonement theories, the journey of deconstruction, and the implications of parenting on understanding God. The discussion delves into the contrast between restorative and retributive justice, the challenges posed by Christian nationalism, and the importance of recognizing the multifaceted nature of human beings.

Mako's Instagram | @makonagasawa

The Anastasis Center

Chapters

02:31 Deconstruction and Personal Faith Journeys

08:39 The Shift from Retributive to Restorative Justice

14:39 The Role of Guilt in Evangelicalism

20:16 Restorative Justice in Practice

33:52 Understanding Psychopathy and Restorative Justice

48:53 The Complexity of Human Nature

01:05:38 Navigating Difficult Conversations and Restorative Approaches

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