Richard Thomas from Wormlovers and other enviro-centric businesses talks about what factors shaped his eclectic career and business life

@richardthomas is #cofounder of @wormlovers where he is a #wormfarmer #breedingworms and the business supplies, services and educates on everything to do with #composting #nutrientcycling #soil #worms. 

He also co-founded @Boogiefestival #musicfestival (after being integrally involved with another iconic festival @bigdayout ) and @treecreds

Richard went to #Artschool @sydneycollegeofthearts in Sydney and evolved an #artpractice, which was around very much focused on #ecology #conservation #sustainability #environmentalism. The businesses were also built, ground up, on the same  foundational principles. It's a ripping chat with someone who does care, you'll hear it the way he speaks and see it in what has done - in the episode Richard talks about;

• #lovetheworklovetheworld
• his self described 'accidental but sort of interesting journey'
• modestly exhibiting his art in 15 countries
• the profound experience of #livingofftheland in #Tasmania as a teenager
• starting new businesses with great friends on #enviromental #sustainable values  
• #homecomposting
• why #earthworms #soilhealthare just so fundamentally important to all of us 
• the #Covid19 induced struggles for #smallbusinessowners
• trying to find #balance between home and work
• wy it's time to #exit  #businesssale  @wormlovers 
• the support he feels when talking to other #businessowners

A full transcript is below.

@kerrcapital

Welcome to another edition of Small Business Banter. This morning, I've got in Richard Thomas. Richard has a really diverse business background. We're going to chat to him about these businesses. He’s a founder of @Wormlovers which is-- he's a worm farmer, and we'll talk about recycling, environmentalism. He's also co-founder of the @BoogieMusicFestival and a founder of another @Treecreds, which is a carbon reduction project. It's a really interesting mix, but firstly, welcome in Richard Thomas. Great to have you in our studio.

Richard Thomas: Thanks, Michael. Great to be here. 

Michael: Perhaps you just want to expand a little bit on those three ventures that you've been involved in, and then we can pick up a couple of conversations around them.

Richard: I guess, starting off with the Wormlovers, really, it's been something I've been doing for about 20 years I was a sole trader until around 8 years ago, and then we established it as a Pty Ltd business. But, nearly 20 years of #breedingworms and doing everything to do with #composting and #nutrientcycling and #soil and #worms, from that perspective. #Boogiefestival started about 15 years ago, and that came out of my experience. I worked for 20 years on the #BigDayOut festival as a kind of art coordinator and then, that evolved into running a part of the festival with a stage and various other activities, working in the core team of the Big Day Out from its inception, right through until when it finished, I think about 6 or 7 years ago. And through that... what my journey has very much been things have just come up. I don't know how much planning has gone into it. It's just sort of like being somehow an accidental but sort of interesting journey. 

Originally, I went to #Artschool in Sydney and then evolved an art practice, which was around very much focused on #ecology and #conservation, #sustainability, #environmentalism. So, these other projects that are being involved in have always been related to that sort of foundational, sort of vocation, I guess, as an #artist. And I had a quite long career as a practicing artist and showed in my work in probably about 15 different countries and had commercial galleries and was pretty much active in that world for 20, probably nearly 30 years. 

Michael: Wow.

Richard: The Big Day Out was a gig that provided me with enough income to sort of subsidize my art practice. So, that was what was going on for most of those years. And then, I've always had a really strong interest in, I guess, #nature and #naturalprocesses. When I was a teenager after I left school, I went live with my uncle down in #Tasmania. This is in the late 70s, early 80s. He was #livingofftheland there, I guess you'd call him a-- he’s not a sort of a hippie-ish looking guy, but I guess some of his values are very much about #backtoearth, you know, #growinghisownfood and he and his family had #drafthorses, they had their own #sheep, they're making their own clothes at a huge #veggiegarden, they would make #beehives, they were #makingtheirownbooze and generally living off the land. So that was a really influential experience for me.

Michael: You lived there as a teenager, or?

Richard: Yeah. I think when I was about 17, for a couple of years I lived down there. So that was a really profound experience for me. At that time, there were a lot of people, maybe similar to what's going on at the moment. It was a lot of people who were just fed up with the mainstream world, and people moving down to Tasmania, a lot of young people, people from different parts of the world. You know, the land was cheap and there were a lot of people who were building their own house, going #offgrid, and stuff, which is now sort of becoming again. It's coming back into the mainstream a bit more, but at that time, there was a real kind of sense of movement happening.

Michael: Yeah.

Richard: So that's the kind of background.

Michael: So, you talked about-- it's not opportunistic, but you know, there were things that piqued your interest, say, you'd go after it?

Richard: Yeah, that's right. And so, when I went to Art school in Sydney, I'd already had that experience, living in the country and being really connected to all these natural processes. So, that's sort of carried on into my developing art practice. 

Michael: What art were you producing, Richard? 

Richard: Well, I went to @SydneyCollegeoftheArts, which is an incredible place and an incredible time to be doing that. The '80s were a really incredible time to be an artist. So many ideas and so many different streams going on. Painting sort of returned. There were also a lot of conceptual ideas around and it gave me the opportunity to try out a whole lot of different media and different approaches, but always around sort of nature, somehow connected to nature. So, initially, I went to do photography, and then I jumped into the painting department, and then I moved on later to more installation work, even some video work. But mostly, painting and installation work, and often using natural materials or landscape paintings, photography, yeah.

Michael: It really does sound like that experience living off the grid in Tazi[?] was quite formative for you because I think Wormlovers is a recycling environmental business wholly, but I think Boogie Fest was really differentiated itself based on its environmentalism credentials. Is that right?

Richard: Yeah.

Michael: You know, you were really looking hard to tread lightly on the earth.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. And I think... you know, I started Boogie Festival with some really great friends who are-- a lot of those relationships that evolved out of the Big Day Out, and we used to go to a lot of festivals together, and so, we just came up with this idea of doing a festival. But it's always been a passion of mine to consider the environmental impact of everything you're doing, to me, that's a sort of fundamental principle that I think everyone should adopt, really. So, it's not just a sort of sense of going. We've got this guy; he's doing a bit of green stuff on the side. And then we'll just keep doing what we're doing because we're sort of taking care of the environmental stuff. I think that sort of attitude often with some businesses, I think, with some corporations, in particular, can be a bit of a problem because it's just the sideline, the guys that are doing the sustainability stuff. 

But with Boogie, we tried to really embed that with things, like we introduced--- We got rid of #disposablecups, so we had plastic pots for all the beers. We brought in #onsitecomposting, we'd set up a whole sorting operation site and[?] all of that to increase our recycling. And we did a carbon offset, I think that that was through Treecreds, which is another enterprise that I'd started. And the idea of that was that when you came to the festival as a punter, you would be able to purchase a #carbonoffset for your #travelemissions to the festival.

Michael: Yeah. So rather than paying not lip service, necessarily, but like as you say, the bigger groups, bigger companies might have sustainability area. 

Richard: Yes.

Michael: Boogie Festival is ground up. The whole thing is built around a few core values, one of them which is environmentalism. So, you mentioned, people-- and as we've interviewed on this program, quite a few people involved in, I guess, activating #regionalareas and more people are moving to the regions. But do you think environmentalism is at risk at the moment? Or do you think it's the best opportunity it has ever been for people to reconsider how they treat the environment? It's strange times we're in.

Richard: Yes, it’s certainly strange times. And I think it's a complex question because there's so much that is going on, and there's so much that isn't going on that needs to happen, really. I feel like these certain parts of the world that-- or sectors of the economy or demographics or whatever you want to call it, people who are really moving ahead quickly with this stuff. And I feel like there's a big lag there as well. So, it's hard to put your finger on it and generalize about it because there's so much activity, but I still feel a little bit like, you know, sustainability is something that people are talking about, generally more than they're actually doing. And I think part of the problem is that we've fundamentally lived in a world, which is all of the systems were built up in the structure of the global economy. And the way that the industrialized world works is it's heading in one direction, which is unsustainable. So, it's like turning around a gigantic supertanker, you know?

Michael: Yes.

Richard: Yeah, it's a long process, and we have to change people's attitudes as well as their behavior.

Michael: [crosstalk] And you've had a really good crack at doing that, and as a businessperson as well, right? Through Boogie Festival, which I think, sadly, that we've had the last Boogie Festival we're going to have, are we? Is-- 

Richard: Yeah. Well, there might be another festival but we're just not sure this time, obviously, stating the obvious. But you know, a situation with events is so uncertain. It's already become-- the game's changed a lot from the days when something like the Big Day was happening. Anyway, it's much harder to sell tickets that the costs are going up in the event industry. There are a lot more #compliance and #hurdles and complexity and cost that goes into putting on these events while, you know,-- and it's harder to sell tickets so it's a much more difficult #businessmodel to maintain. So--

Michael: It seems like there's maybe a move to these micro[?] owner, it's like called micro festivals, but smaller, more niche festivals, I mean, plenty of people are getting to the regions. But, look on today's episode of Small Business Banter, we're talking right now with Richard Thomas.

Richard, another way you've kind of lived out and your sort of core personal values, I think, is through Wormlovers. Do you just want to kind of give us a snapshot of what Wormlovers does right now?

Richard: Yes. So, we started Wormlovers, as I was saying, about 8 years ago, and really, there were a number of reasons for setting it up. And I guess the core, the main sort of motivation was really #my passion and my #businesspartner, Gail Davidson's passion for what we were doing. And the sort of-- and also, the sense that there was a time, it felt like it was the right time to do this. I'd had this idea in the back of my mind for a long time of sort of specializing in worm farming and home composting and developing an enterprise which would kind of be part education but part commercial. So, the vision part of it is really important. We do, you know, we have to educate-- we feel like part of what we're doing in Wormlovers is kind of inspiring people to change the world with a worm farm. 

Michael: I think, one that your tagline or motto is "Love the worm, love the world"?

Richard: Yes. And you know, I feel like there's this fascinating thing happening that maybe a lot of people are not aware of, you know, that the species like the worm, the #compostworm, or the #earthworm is so fundamental to our lives. We wouldn't be here without soil, without healthy soil because all of our food comes and all the higher creatures on earth really are dependent on the ecology of the soil. It regulates climate, it's connected to water - the water cycle, it's connected to the nutrient cycle in particular, of cycling nutrients from food and #organicwaste back into the soil, being replenished or back into a worm farm or a compost bin and turning back into healthy nutrients to create more food and more plants and more wellbeing. So, we see ourselves as a vehicle to provide the ability for individuals, both in a home, but also across the board of anyone who eats food. From schools to cafes to councils to, you know, you name it, anywhere where there's food waste produced is a potential site to engage in this process, this incredible process of setting up a worm farm and cycling your organics on the spot, so--

Michael: I can hear the purpose of the connection with that core purpose and in the way you talk, but it's taking on a lot to-- You know, when you talk about having a business that is commercial and also educational, it's a big task, isn't it?

Richard: Yeah.

Michael: To educate through your business, a very honorable one. Wormlovers operates out of a precinct, currently where you've got. It's in... is it Werri...?

Richard: Yeah, Werribee.

Michael: Werribee, yeah. And so, as part of a complex of a few #environmentalbusinesses down there, but you are farming worms and you're reselling related equipment for households and for small businesses, I guess?

Richard: Yeah, that's right. So just to sort of summarize that, these different aspects of the business. And I guess our core business is really our #onlineshop. The operations yard is really there to support the online sales, but also, any commercial work we're doing. We leased some land from @MelbWater out of the #Westerntreatmentplant, and that's where we actually breed our worms, and there are some byproducts from that process. We have big beds that where we breed the worms and we feed them on a mixture of different #feedstocks, #manures, and #coffeegrounds, and #organicwaste. And then, we package those worms up. We also store our inventory of composting products worm farms, such as we import a worm farm from #NewZealand in container loads, called the @hungrybin, which had been probably the best design worm farm that we've ever come across. We have a range of accessories and things that we sell as well. So that yard, basically, supports our online part of the business through online sales. And then, we also do sort of outreach work where we-- and sadly, with the lockdown, this has been one of our struggles as it is for so many small businesses. There's a lot of that work that involved us going out on site. You say got going into a restaurant or a school or a council to set up worm farms and educate people on site.

Michael: You just haven't had the opportunities? 

Richard: No, we just did-- All of those big facilities have just been shut down or so restricted. So, what's happened there is that immediately, people are not eating food because they're not at all on-site. So, there's almost no food right on those sites. There's no--

Michael: Everyone's at home. 

Richard: Yeah, so that's been a real struggle for us because part of what we would do is going out-- Well, particularly around, obviously around Melbourne, and help people set up and troubleshoot their worm farms. We also had a number of contracts; our biggest client was the @cityofMelbourne. With the lockdown, they had to shut down all of their sites and so we lost that contract to actually help. We had about half a dozen sites, and we do monthly or regular visits to work with the staff and just keep the worm farms in good health. We also had gardens that we're managing, so often, we'd set up really high yield #containergardens and some of these gardens are on #rooftops and in schools and in line-wise around Melbourne and community centers and things like that. So anyway, all of that work was lost with the lockdown sadly so that's been one of our struggles.

Michael: Yeah, as you said, it's affected so many businesses and so many people and really forces you to rethink the way you do business. And, you know, we all need that inspiration when things are particularly tough, so personally, with Wormlovers, you're probably getting to the point where that's seen natural cycle, you move on...?

Richard: Yeah. I think after 8 years of just eating, sleeping, as is for almost small business owners, you know, it just takes over your life.

Michael: It can completely dominate, particularly, when someone like you who is so connected, enthusiastic, with the reason the businesses is there.

Richard: Yeah. [crosstalk] No, you're absolutely right. And I think there are positives and negatives about that, being so connected to what you're doing because you've got to have a passion, you've got to have belief, and you've got to really get your up in the morning and believe in what you're doing. But at the same time, I think it's probably healthy to be able to maintain some kind of distance as well from what you're doing. And that's, I think, one of the struggles, I think that trying to find that balance can be difficult.

Michael: I don't know in the work I do that that many people get that right. You know, that maybe you get it right for a period of time and it's certainly not to say you shouldn't be aiming to find that a bit of a boundary between the two but, you know, sometimes, you can't help yourself.

Richard: That's right, yeah. And I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm sure these small business owners all over the country that have the same struggle of sort of, you know, they're still thinking about it late at night, you wake up in the morning, it's the first thing you think about, and just the ongoing, you know, it just doesn't stop, does it? So--

Michael: It doesn't stop and I think there comes a time-- you know, for you, there's a time when you start to think about perhaps a #newventure, a new pathway. So, in your case, I think you're looking at a venture in Tasmania?

Richard: Yeah, that's right. So, what I'm looking to do over the next couple of years is to basically work towards, maybe exiting Wormlovers or looking for a joint venture or reconfiguring it in some way or another. And obviously, putting a lot of thought into how that might manifest.

Michael: Yeah.

Richard: And then, looking at this project, down in Tassie, so I've had a share in a beautiful spot down on the #MerseyRiver in northern Tasmania, an old farm. And we're looking at sort of developing that as a sort of #sanctuary or #retreat. It'll be a multipurpose, sort of location for potentially-- It's got incredible #fishing there[?], so for as a fishing lodge, but also making it available for sort of events of one sort or another. We've had a couple of weddings. We've had some sort of parties down there, like 50th birthday or whatever. But also, for things like, maybe meditation, yoga, retreats, maybe somewhere for, you know, any kind of group to really go and be in this really beautiful natural environment surrounded by wilderness on this river. It's got a really incredible sort of vibe. So that's sort of what I'm looking at next, it's working on that. And that part of that will also be probably incorporating a lot of these sustainable, environmental kind of themes that I've been working on.

Michael: They're not going to go away from you, right? Those--

Richard: No [laughing]

Michael: It sounds like, also Tazi, you spent some formative time there, and you’re kind of going back there. 

Richard: Yeah, it's like a full cycle. Yes. Nice. 

Michael: Yeah. Just in closing, Richard, it's so wonderful to talk to business owners, that's what we're about on Small Business Banter, and sharing that. There's a pathway for you to move on from Wormlovers and on to something else, but I'm just keen in the last minute to kind of if you got some sort of tips or ideas or people that influenced you heavily in the way you go about running your day-to-day business that other owners could come[?] refer to.

Richard: Yeah. Well, I'm probably not the-- I probably don't-- maybe I'm not having a very clear way that I look at this., but I do tend to talk to other business owners. I think that's probably my main source of sort of understanding, and I'm always intrigued by how other businesses work. So, I'm always trying to find out, "How does that thing work?" You know, you see something that you've never heard of, and you go, "That's a business? That's fascinating. How did someone get that turn into a business?" I think that's part of the-- but I'm kind of inspired by people like @David Holmglen who started the #Permaculture movement. Obviously, not from a business perspective, but I guess I'm interested in the philosophy of working with nature and how sustainability works, so I do a lot of research in that area. So yeah, I guess it's--

Michael: I think the, you know, talking to other business owners-- as long as you're talking to somebody, right?

Richard: Yeah.

Michael: Ideally, some [inaudible] can kind of, you know, because it is a battle, and it's been hard, through the last 12, 18 months, especially. And sharing with other owners, which is kind of like this program, we often get on owners and they talk about their successes and their challenges. So, I think that's as good as any, you know, for other people listening in, talk to owners, like other owners like Richard does.

Richard, we're out of time. I just wanted to say thank you very much for sharing that fascinating background, that crossing over environmentalism, music, business. It's wonderful to hear. I really appreciate your time and I wish you well as you kind of move down to that next venture in Tazi and maybe pass on Wormlovers to somebody else to take up the fight. 

Richard: Yeah, great. Thanks, Michael. I really appreciate it, it's great to talk to you. 

Michael: Alright. Thanks, Richard. 

Richard: Thanks. Bye-bye. See you.

Michael: So that's all for today's episode of Small Business Banter. I continue to be inspired, bringing new small business experts and other small business owners and hearing their stories and their experiences. For any of the links, resources, or information we've talked about on the show today, or just to contact me, please head over to smallbusinessbanter.com or find Small Business Banter on Facebook or Instagram. It'd be really great to have you tune in at the same time next week for another episode of Small Business Banter.

[End]

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michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au

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