In this conversation, Jeremy Donch and Justin McWilliams discuss the importance of direct communication in the fire service, the challenges of complacency, and the need for a culture that prioritizes effective search and rescue operations. They emphasize the significance of experience over education, the necessity of local context in firefighting, and the long-term commitment required to change departmental culture. The discussion highlights the importance of preparation, accountability, and the ongoing dialogue needed to ensure firefighters are equipped to handle emergencies effectively. In this engaging conversation, Jeremy Donch and Justin McWilliams explore the critical themes of training, operational strategies, and the evolving challenges in firefighting. They emphasize the importance of practical experience over mere statistics, the need for a culture of trust and simplicity in operations, and the impact of modern construction on firefighting tactics. The discussion also touches on personal growth and the passion that drives individuals in the fire service.