Where Should Work Fit in Our Lives (Anne Helen Petersen & Charlie Warzel)

Dec 23, 2021

Anne Helen Petersen and Charlie Warzel, culture journalists and co-authors of *Out of Office*, delve into the complexities of modern work-life dynamics. They discuss the challenges of remote work, including emotional tolls and blurred boundaries, and critique how job responsibilities often mimic family dynamics without the same loyalty. Key topics include the impact of workplace surveillance on trust, the benefits of a four-day work week, and the urgent need for inclusive policies that prioritize individual well-being over productivity metrics.

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Intro

00:00 • 2min

Reimagining Work-Life Balance

02:11 • 9min

Navigating the Dynamics of Work and Family in Modern Employment

11:40 • 6min

Navigating Trust and Technology in the Workplace

17:20 • 15min

Reimagining Work Culture: Trust and Agency

32:17 • 4min

Innovating Tradition: The Success of a Four-Day Work Week

36:26 • 4min

The Hidden Costs of Automation and Workplace Communication

39:58 • 4min

The Future of Work: Embracing Flexibility and Community

43:49 • 11min

Reimagining Work Through Natural Rhythms

55:08 • 3min

“Like family relationship has obligations that go both ways. Hopefully there's unconditional love there, but it's also the, like your re your family and, and, and the other people in your family see you as family too. But in a job, if you, the, the whole family thing goes one way, you're supposed to give and give and give and give and, and, and, and feel this like guilt and obligation to your company and your coworkers, your company at any moment can sever those ties, you know, your is at will employment in, in this country. And, and, and so, like, that's not part of a, a family thing. That's not unconditional. Your job is totally conditional.”

So says Charlie Warzel, who together with Anne Helen Petersen, wrote OUT OF OFFICE: THE BIG PROBLEM AND BIGGER PROMISE OF WORKING FROM HOME. Petersen and Warzel, ditched New York City for the promise of a better life/work balance out west a few years ago, which gave them a headstart on understanding the reality of working from home—before it became a reality for the rest of the world through the pandemic. Both culture, media, and technology journalists for Buzzfeed at the time, they found that the promise of work from home was not a panacea for more time to spend in nature: Like the rest of us—just earlier—they discovered that they were spending even more time PERFORMING their work, showing their managers back in New York City that they deserved the privilege of being untethered from a traditional office. Being out of the office only added to their anxiety and overwhelm.

So when COVID hit, they were already aware of both the the pitfalls and potential of work from home—their fantastic book, which just came out, offers a survey of how we find ourselves in this intractable bind today, where for too many of us, our jobs have taken over the center of our lives, and how we can use this opportunity to reshape workplaces for a more sustainable future. In our conversation we talk about how we don’t prioritize the art of managers, how the idea of time and output is problematic for so many people who are not, actually machines, and what a more inclusive and human HR structure might look like, if it weren’t engineered to avoid abuse and instead could focus solely on providing support. Let’s get to our conversation.