TCC Podcast #64: Building Better Funnels with Paige Poutiainen

For the 64th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob bring copywriter Paige Poutiainen into the studio to talk about how she’s grown her business from Upwork to online funnel specialist. It’s a great conversation in which, Paige talks about: •  becoming a copywriter because she doesn’t speak Finnish well •  how she has succeeded working with clients found on Upwork •  why she shifted from content to conversion copy to funnel strategist •  what she’s doing to avoid funnel fatigue for her clients •  why creating a funnel is a bit like dating •  her basic process for creating a funnel for her clients •  what she does to make sure her funnels are set up to succeed from the beginning •  what had made the biggest difference in her business this year •   why she is using video more and more in her business And as we often do, we asked Paige what she thinks other copywriters are missing out on (her answer covers stuff like owning a niche). Plus we asked what she’s learned living in Finland for the past five years (while working with clients in the USA). It’s a great way to kick off your new year. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Danny Marguiles Freelance to Win Joanna Wiebe Hillary Wiess Funnel Fatigue article The Copywriter Club newsletter No BS Pricing Strategy by Dan Kennedy TheImpactCopywriter.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 64, as we chat with copywriter and funnel specialist Paige Poutiainen about finding success on Upwork, building effective marketing funnels using video to build a reputation, and what she’s done to accelerate her business over the past year. Kira: Paige, welcome! Paige: Hi, thanks for having me. Rob: Hey Paige! Kira: We’re so excited to have you! So we met Paige in the first beta round of our Accelerator program and now you’re in the think tank, so we get extra, extra time to get to know you, and also to see how you’ve grown your business over the last year. I think a good place is just with your story and how did you end up as a copywriter? Paige: Yeah, that’s a good question! I think I was writing copy or content you know, starting at age twelve. I started blogging. That’s what I would do—I was a nerdy child. And you know, other kids are outside playing or doing whatever and I was upstairs, like, blogging about boys that I liked and all this kind of stuff teenagers go through. And I’ve had several blogs over the years, just kind of as a hobbyist kind of thing. And then, when I was in grad school, I got a job as a content marketer, but my official title was CMO. I was NOT qualified to be a CMO, but you know how startups do those fancy titles and stuff. So I was doing like, blogs, general content there, and I actually had to do like landing pages and opt-in pages, so that’s where I first dipped my toes in copywriting. Then, you know, for several reasons, I didn’t enjoy that kind of working setup, it didn’t work for me, and because I was living in Finland—and I do not speak Finnish well—it is sometimes difficult to get a job, so that pressure to find work kind of pushed me into the freelancing. I had heard of Upwork, I had done some research, and you know, it was the meeting points—or, that was the catalyst. Those pressures from me deciding to leave my job, having not any other options available, I was like I have to do something. So I started on Upwork. I took Danny’s course, the Freelance to Win course. I started writing content, e-books mostly, and then I decided that sales copy was really where the money was at, I mean, that’s not why I stayed there but that was what kind of attracted me me to sales copywriting. I actually enjoyed being really close to the sale, so you know, doing the emails and the landing pages because for me, it was like the most strategic place to be, and I’ve got a strategy brain, so yeah! So now I’m here. So I moved into sales copywriting and started learning more about it and slowly kind of made the transition into funnels! Rob: So let’s go back, Paige, to when you were just starting out on UpWork. We interviewed Danny for a previous episode of the podcast, and got his take on how to succeed there. There are a lot of people in the club that I think try to go to Upwork, and fail—they can’t make it work, they’re finding ridiculously difficult jobs, offered at you know, $15 or $20 for projects that take days to do. How did you succeed? What was the secret that helped you succeed where so many others have failed? Paige: Yeah, well, he covers a lot of stuff in his course, so I wouldn’t say it’s one thing, but I would recommend doing his course and I know when you’re starting out, it was like $500, I think, when I first took it—I’m not sure what it’s priced at now. And now, he even has like a copywriting course. And it seems like a lot of money when you’re starting out—you don’t have any income, you maybe don’t have a job or anything like that—but for me, it’s really worth it because it’s all about the mindset. You learn how to screen clients, and you learn just how to ignore like—and it makes you angry to see people asking for blog posts at $5 or something, but you know that that’s very likely a bad client. And you just ignore them. Like, they’re going to get what they pay for in most cases. So, you know, I get offers every day that I charge well above what most people on the platform charge and I still get like, crappy offers too, and I just immediately decline them. I’m not going to waste time on that. So I’m not an affiliate or anything, but if you want to succeed on Upwork, if you’re not a natural and you’re struggling, his course can definitely help. Kira: Well, let’s say someone listening can’t take the course, for whatever reason—he shuts it down tomorrow and they can’t take it—what would you say is the one thing they can do if they’re on Upwork right now, they’re getting loser clients, they want to get better clients; is there one thing they can do tomorrow? Paige: Oh, that’s a good question. Of course, your positioning, I mean, you have to kind of take a stand, not in a bad way. Even when I was you know, first on the platform, I was always at the high end of the bid, because I used to pay for the Pro account so you could see what people were bidding. I think it’s like taking this problem solving approach. I always get the most responses when I’m leaving proposals, if I’m looking at it like a consultant. And that takes time to learn. But if you’re studying your craft and you kind of know like, the questions to ask, like what’s their problem, why do they need this, just basic things that we take for granted now because we do it all the time. But not just you know, taking orders, be invested in what they need and in their goals. I think that helps set you apart, instead of just trying to pitch. I see it as a conversation—you’re trying to open a conversation—and you’re not really trying to pitch yourself. Kira: It sounds like doing your homework, and actually understanding the client—what the client prospect may need and then problem solving. But maybe not everyone is willing to invest that time in doing that. Paige: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s true. Kira: Okay, so I want to hear a little bit more, just about your transition from writing content to writing sales copy. It seems like, as a strategic thinker, you realized okay, there’s potentially more money in sales copy, and then it hooked you; but how did you actually make that transition? Because I know of a lot of copywriters that are trying to make that transition and it seems a little tricky if your background is in content and all your projects are in content; what’s the best way to really jump in? Is it just landing that first project and just like, jumping in? Paige: Yeah! I use the crystal ball method, which is another tool of Danny’s—and it seems like I’m promoting him hardcore, but I did find his stuff really helpful—so basically, it’s like you create spec work. So when I was first trying to break into sales pages, or it was more like, medium sized landing pages, I just took some fictional businesses and created landing pages for those. Copy, and I also did a design, because I’m of this opinion that everything looks better in a frame, and I think it changes their perception when they’re looking at something that looks clean and somewhat put together than when they’re looking at a copy document. So that’s what I did first. I just made some spec pieces. And I didn’t like, lie to the client and say these are spec pieces—if they would’ve asked—but I didn’t come out and say these are spec pieces. I was just like here’s some proof of what I can do, and it was pretty easy that way actually, to land a client. I mean, of course, I wasn’t charging as high as I do now, but I was still charging more than the bottom tier. So I think my first sales page, or kind of landing page, was like a $500 landing page, selling a e-book. So, created a launch for an e-book. Kira: Okay. So we kind of have this debate whether or not it’s good to start on Upwork. Clearly, it worked for you and you started on the high end. Do you think it’s where every copywriter should start?