Old School with Shilo Brooks

chevron_right

Nick Cave on ‘The Adventures of Pinocchio’

whatshot 11 snips

Oct 30, 2025

Guest

Nick Cave

Nick Cave, the iconic Australian singer-songwriter and frontman of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, joins the conversation to delve into Carlo Collodi’s *The Adventures of Pinocchio*. He reflects on its dark themes, starkly contrasting it with the Disney adaptation. Cave discusses how the story helped him process personal grief and explores the transformative power of transgression and love. He also shares insights on creativity's messy nature, the emotional depth of male distress, and the richness of Collodi's writing, revealing the enduring relevance of this classic tale.

57:42

forum

Ask episode

web_stories

AI Snips

view_agenda

Chapters

menu_book

Books

auto_awesome

Transcript

info_circle

Episode notes

insights

INSIGHT

Timeless Mirror Of Human Growth

Pinocchio remains relevant at every age because his struggle between appetite and intention mirrors human development.
Nick Cave relates to the puppet as a child and to Geppetto as a father, showing the book's layered appeal.

insights

INSIGHT

Education Through Perilous Misadventure

Collodi's book is a sequence of perilous trials rather than gentle lessons, with the world constantly trying to annihilate Pinocchio.
The novel teaches through misadventure as much as through formal schooling.

insights

INSIGHT

Transgression Widens The Soul

Transgression widens personality while mere obedience narrows it, making disobedience part of becoming fully human.
Cave argues that creative and spirited lives require those widening missteps, not only strict conformity.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Why Pinocchio Matters to Nick Cave

01:10 • 2min

chevron_right

Childhood Identification with Pinocchio

03:10 • 1min

chevron_right

Collodi's Darker Pinocchio vs. Disney

04:33 • 3min

chevron_right

Adventure as Education in Pinocchio

07:09 • 4min

chevron_right

Disobedience, Transgression, and Becoming

10:50 • 5min

chevron_right

Lampwick's Tragic Fate and Moral Lessons

Geppetto: Creator, Grief, and Longing

18:22 • 7min

chevron_right

Pinocchio Finds Geppetto in the Belly of the Beast

25:19 • 3min

chevron_right

The Child as Savior and the Inversion of Roles

28:24 • 3min

chevron_right

Why Scenes of Male Distress Move Us

31:51 • 4min

chevron_right

Who Benefits from Reading Pinocchio?

36:00 • 3min

chevron_right

Collodi's Simple Language, Wild Imagination

38:40 • 2min

chevron_right

Theatre, Circus, and Hellish Adventures

41:00 • 3min

chevron_right

Creativity, Transgression, and the Messiness of Art

43:31 • 3min

chevron_right

Relationship Between Creator and Creation

46:54 • 5min

chevron_right

Lightning Round: Recent Reads and Quick Answers

51:59 • 1min

chevron_right

The Red Hand Files: Grief and Listener Letters

• Mentioned in 95 episodes

Crime and Punishment

Bibliophile Bibliophile Pro

Constance Black Garnett

FYODOR DOSTOEVSKY

Published in 1866, 'Crime and Punishment' is a psychological novel set in St. Petersburg, Russia. It revolves around Rodion Raskolnikov, an impoverished and intellectually gifted former student who formulates a theory that some individuals are morally justified in committing crimes for the greater good of society. Raskolnikov puts this theory to the test by murdering an old pawnbroker and her half-sister, leading to a profound exploration of his psychological and emotional struggles with guilt, paranoia, and the consequences of his actions. The novel delves into socio-economic disparities, moral dilemmas, and the psychology of criminals, making it a classic of Russian literature and existential thought.

#105

• Mentioned in 129 episodes

The Brothers Karamazov

Larissa Volokhonsky

Fyodor Dostoevsky

Richard Pevear

Set in 19th-century Russia, 'The Brothers Karamazov' is a novel that delves into the lives of the Karamazov family, focusing on the three brothers—Dmitri, Ivan, and Alyosha—and their complex relationships with their father, Fyodor Pavlovich Karamazov. The novel is a murder mystery, a courtroom drama, and an exploration of erotic rivalry, faith, doubt, and reason. It examines the human psyche, moral dilemmas, and the search for meaning in a world fraught with suffering and uncertainty. The story revolves around the murder of Fyodor Pavlovich and the subsequent trial of Dmitri, accused of the crime, while exploring deeper themes of Russian life, social and spiritual striving, and the clash between faith and reason.

#22

• Mentioned in 280 episodes

The Bible

Various Authors

The Bible is a comprehensive collection of texts that form the central religious text of Christianity and Judaism. It is divided into the Old Testament, which includes books such as Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and others that narrate the creation of the world, the history of the Israelites, and the prophetic messages. The New Testament focuses on the life, teachings, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, along with the early Christian church and its spread. The Bible contains a wide range of genres, including historical narratives, poetry, wisdom literature, prophetic writings, and epistles.

#66

• Mentioned in 167 episodes

Frankenstein

Mary Shelley

Written in epistolary form, the novel tells the story of Victor Frankenstein, a brilliant and ambitious scientist who, driven by Enlightenment-era ideas of progress and science, creates a living being from dead body parts. However, upon seeing the creature come to life, Frankenstein is horrified and abandons it. The creature, shunned by society due to its appearance, seeks revenge against its creator, leading to a series of tragic events. The novel explores themes of guilt, loss, and the emotional and moral consequences of scientific hubris, blending elements of Gothic and Romantic literature.

#530

• Mentioned in 43 episodes

Dom Quixote

Xavier, Alberto

Don Quixote, written by Miguel de Cervantes, tells the story of Alonso Quixano, a middle-aged gentleman who, influenced by his extensive reading of chivalric romances, decides to become a knight-errant. He renames himself Don Quixote and, with his squire Sancho Panza, embarks on a series of adventures. These adventures often involve Don Quixote's misinterpretation of reality, such as mistaking windmills for giants and inns for castles. The novel explores themes of reality vs. imagination, the decline of chivalry, and the human condition. Eventually, Don Quixote returns home, regains his sanity, and renounces his chivalric ambitions before his death.

#9443

• Mentioned in 4 episodes

The adventures of Pinocchio

Carlo Collodi

Set in 19th-century Tuscany, Italy, 'The Adventures of Pinocchio' follows the misadventures of Pinocchio, a wooden marionette created by the poor woodcarver Geppetto. Pinocchio's journey is marked by his propensity for lying, which causes his nose to grow, and his encounters with various characters, including the benevolent Blue Fairy. Through his experiences, Pinocchio learns valuable lessons about honesty, hard work, and the importance of making the right choices. The novel is a timeless classic that continues to resonate with readers of all ages.

#5068

• Mentioned in 7 episodes

Homer's odyssey

Gwen Cooper

Homer's Odyssey is a memoir by Gwen Cooper that chronicles her life with a blind cat named Homer. Despite being born without eyes, Homer grows into a spirited and loving companion who faces numerous challenges, including surviving the aftermath of 9/11 and defending his home against an intruder. Through Homer's adventures, Cooper reflects on the profound impact he had on her life, teaching her about courage, love, and living beyond limitations.

Carlo Collodi’s The Adventures of Pinocchio is a dark, dazzling Italian fable that is worlds apart from Disney’s sanitized version. Beneath its fantasticism and humor, the story is brimming with poverty, violence, and existential peril. In this episode, Australian rock legend Nick Cave joins Shilo Brooks to talk about one of the best-selling and most widely translated books ever written.

Together, they explore how transgression and disobedience shape character and how art thrives in defiance of conformity. Cave reflects on how the story helped him process grief after the death of his son. In examining the puppet’s journey to becoming a real boy, Cave and Brooks consider how love and suffering make all of us real.

Old School is proudly brought to you by the Jack Miller Center. If you believe in the importance of civic education and want to help prepare the next generation to carry on our democracy, join us at JackMillerCenter.org.

Become a paid subscriber to The Free Press today to enjoy exclusive bonus episodes and reduced ads. Click here to subscribe.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Home Top podcasts Popular guests Top books