The institution of the church has a history of feeling unsafe and judgmental for many people. Like any system, it has humanity’s thumbprint of messiness all over it. But sometimes the systems that hurt us, have a gift within to heal us.

In this episode, Pietze joins Abi and Justin once again to discuss her return to the institution of the church. They process how Pietze found resolution and examine together what it is to follow a redeeming God we can trust. Through a humble acknowledgment of their own messiness, they invite people to let go of the hierarchy they have that keeps them believing they’re better than others.

If you need resolution with any kind of institution, this episode is a massive step to getting there.