Jeremy D Johnson is a writer, scholar and podcast host. He is an integral scholar on Gebser and hosts the excellent podcast Mutations. You can find Jeremy's writing on mutations.blog. Or get in touch on Twitter or Patreon. This conversation is a deep dive into 'development', progress and liminality. We situate our current moment and then jump off the deep end. It was rich! We speak of progress, what the integral/developmental theorists (Gebser in particular) predicted through their work. We speak about technology, dance and ponder what omni-directional progress could look like. Especially if it's folded back into relationship with the biosphere. And Jeremy brings the radical and exciting idea of decentering progress - don't quite get what it means? Take a listen. Enjoy! Host Amit. Recorded on 21st of February 2022.