In this interview, author Jill Stoddard and Will Bachman discuss the concept of impostor syndrome. Jill defines the experience as a state where individuals question their competence and legitimacy, even when there is objective evidence to support their accomplishments. The fear is that they will of be outed as a fraud. The phenomenon was officially identified in 1978 by Pauline Clance and Suzanne IMEs, who believed it only existed in high-achieving women. However, culture rebranded it as a syndrome which Jill addresses.

The Background on Imposter Syndrome

Jill believes that the imposter phenomenon has been around for a long time, with prevalence rates averaging between 40 and 70 percent. She suggests that it has been present in early humans, who, when part of a tribe, had a survival advantage due to social comparison and fear of being ousted from their tribe. Early humans engaged in social comparison to ensure they didn't get kicked out of their tribe, which was often a life-or-death situation. The modern world, with technology and social media, has created a context where this issue has been amplified. Jill calls for a cultural rebranding and a redefining of the impostor phenomenon or impostor experience.

This phenomenon has not been extensively researched, and it is important to know that most discussions focus on hypotheses rather than empirical questions. However, research suggests that these impostor thoughts and feelings are positively correlated with success, making the more successful an individual, the more likely they are to have these feelings. Jill discusses the complex reasons behind this phenomenon, including the assumption that others are more competent than they are, the Dunning Kruger cognitive bias, and social and cultural influences. She mentions that in the 70s, when this phenomenon was thought to only impact high-achieving women, it was rebranded as sexism. Her hypothesis and others have suggested that people who have experienced marginalization, such as being told they don't belong in male spaces, or being told they don't belong in white spaces, are more prone to experience imposter syndrome.

Understanding Imposter Syndrome

Jill asserts that it is important to recognize that the more we know and the more we believe others are competent, the more likely we are to feel impostor syndrome. Additionally, it is essential to acknowledge that the stigma surrounding this experience is often perpetuated by those who have experienced marginalization, such as women, people of color, and gay individuals. Jill mentions that impostor syndrome can negatively impact career success, and that it is important to recognize that this is a systemic and organizational issue rather than an individual problem. She believes that individuals should be given tools to manage their feelings and self-doubt, such as psychological flexibility, to overcome this state of mind. Psychological flexibility involves being present in one's life, aware of and open to all internal experiences, emotions, physiological sensations, urges, and thoughts. This allows individuals to make choices based on their deeply held personal values and who they want to be. The goal is to cycle and build psychological flexibility by identifying your values, recognizing the way thoughts and feelings get in the way of you heading in that direction, and changing your relationship to these thoughts. Additional approaches to dealing with impostor syndrome include seeking advice from others, such as talking to other speakers or CEOs, and understanding why they feel that way. Jill shares a strategy for book authors.

Approaches to Dealing with Discomfort

Jill discusses various approaches to dealing with anxiety and self-doubt, including comparing oneself to others, enjoying one's position, treating failure as an opportunity to test something out, and accepting that we are built to avoid uncertainty. She emphasizes the importance of learning to be okay with uncertainty and taking risks in order to spread their message. Jill explains the loop that people get stuck in, and that our brains overestimate the likelihood of bad things happening, and underestimate our ability to cope with it. She suggests testing out new experiences and being willing to do hard things in the presence of pain. She also emphasizes the importance of treating the imposter experience as a learning experience and acknowledging that most people are not paying attention to you. The key takeaway from the conversation is to get comfortable being uncomfortable and to stop letting thoughts bully you into behavior. She suggests getting clear on your values and how you want to live and work. She uses the metaphor of a ship on a journey, where the fog of thoughts and feelings can be dangerous but can be overcome by dropping anchor and waiting for the fog to pass. Jill suggests using a lighthouse, such as a beacon, to guide you forward even when the fog of painful thoughts and feelings is present. By having your values as a guide, you can continue moving forward on your journey, even if it is slower and more scary.

A few other tactics Jill suggests are taking cold showers, brushing teeth with non-dominant hands, eating foods that don't appeal to you, watching sad movies, and allowing yourself to feel uncomfortable. By practicing being with your discomfort, you can make space and open up to feeling it. There are various exercises to practice this, such as crossing your legs or hands in the Funny Feeling way. These activities help you learn that these feelings are temporary and not harmful.

The Cost of Being Human

Additionally, she stresses that it is important to understand that thoughts are not facts, and don’t let your thoughts bully you. She suggests creating distance and making values-driven choices. Two simple ways to do this include taking a thought that gives you trouble and noticing how it feels. This metacognition helps you recognize that these thoughts are just thoughts in your head, not reality. Another way is to give your inner critic a name, like "Sheila" or "no," which keeps it separate and allows you to make different choices. By focusing on the discomfort and the fact that thoughts are not facts, you can create a space where you can make values-driven choices.

Jill talks about the concept of pain as a cost of being human, but how we respond to it is a choice. If we resist, we create suffering, while if we turn down the resistance, we turn down the suffering. Jill also mentions her website, which has resources like a quiz and three tips to living a mighty life. Jill shares two quizzes on her website: one to identify your subtype of imposter, which includes perfectionists, experts, and avoiders. She also discusses different ways we tend to avoid, such as being the doer and avoider.

In summary, Jill discusses the themes of inner critics and the importance of self-awareness in overcoming imposter phenomena. She encourages listeners to share her resources on her website and share her insights on the topic.

Links:

Website: www.jillstoddard.com

The quizzes: www.jillstoddard.com/quizzes

The clinic (The Center for Stress & Anxiety Management): www.csamsandiego.com

The podcast (Psychologists Off the Clock): www.offtheclockpsych.com

Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, which has a mission of connecting independent management consultants with one another, creating opportunities for members to meet, build relationships, and share lessons learned. Learn more at www.umbrex.com.

#151 - "Chupacabra"