Whether you call it hacking or legitimate security research, getting computers to do things that they shouldn’t is an activity that exists in a legal gray area. Sometimes, hackers acting in good faith will find themselves on the other end of a cease-and-desist letter, a lawsuit, or even a prosecution. A new initiative called the Security Research Legal Defense Fund is trying to make sure that white hat hackers who do find themselves in trouble have the legal representation they need. Harley Geiger is the founder of the Security Research Legal Defense Fund and is also a cybersecurity lawyer at Venable. He sits down with host Elias Groll to discuss his work funding legal aid for hackers. CyberScoop reporter AJ Vicens joins the show to discuss calls by major tech companies for governments to do more to combat commercial spyware.