Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes Dr. Margie Warrell, bestselling author and global leadership expert, to talk about her latest book, The Courage Gap: 5 Steps to Braver Action. Drawing from her deeply personal experiences and decades of coaching and research, Margie shares how courage isn't about eliminating fear—it's about regulating it and acting anyway.

Margie and Andy explore the hidden ways fear shapes our decisions at work and at home, how overachievers can unknowingly be held back by fear, and why rescripting the stories we tell ourselves is essential to growth. You'll learn about the “courage muscle,” the power of embodiment, and practical steps to face difficult conversations and bold decisions. Whether you're leading a team, managing a project, or navigating life transitions, Margie offers encouragement and tools to help you close your own courage gap.

If you're looking for insights on facing fears, speaking up, and leading with greater confidence, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

“Courage is not the absence of fear—it’s learning how to regulate it and act anyway.”
“The smarter we think we are, the more cunningly our fear hides in the background.”
“We reject ourselves before anyone else has the chance—because we don't ask.”
“What we focus on expands. Fear thrives when we focus on what we don’t want.”
“Stand guard at the doorway of your language—your stories shape your reality.”
“We need to parent—and lead—from purpose, not from fear.”
“Every conversation is improv—and that’s what makes it feel risky.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
01:55 Start of Interview
02:06 How Did Your Upbringing Inspire Your Courage Work?
05:12 Did You Write This Book Because It Was Easy for You?
07:24 Should We Try to Get Rid of Fear?
09:15 How Do Smart People Hide Their Fear?
13:13 What Was That Story About the First Lady?
16:00 What Does Courage Look Like in Daily Life?
17:58 How Do You Focus on What You Want Instead of What You Fear?
21:40 How Can a Manager Use This to Give Feedback?
23:50 How Do You Apply These Ideas as a Parent?
25:49 How Do You Stop Fear-Casting and Catastrophizing?
28:20 What’s a Personal Story You Had to Rescript?
32:40 What’s the Role of Language in Shaping Our Stories?
35:00 How Do You Prepare to Speak with Confidence?
39:16 What Reps Did You Put In to Build Courage?
42:20 What Role Has Failure Played in Building Courage?
44:34 How Do You Help Kids Build Courage?
46:34 End of Interview
47:09 Andy Comments After the Interview
52:53 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Margie and her work at MargieWarrell.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

Episode 440 with Kelli Thompson about closing the confidence gap.
Episode 173 with Sarah Robb O’Hagan about why playing it safe is holding you back.
Episode 142 with Amy Cuddy about her book Presence—confidently rise to your most daunting tasks.

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Courage, Fear, Confidence, Difficult Conversations, Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, Communication, Personal Growth, Parenting, Vulnerability, Risk Management, Decision Making, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Zoster after anti-TNF treatment of RA, fibrosis and mortality in dilated cardiomyopathy, myocardial wall thinning as a sign of CAD, and more.