The collapse of wood pellet producer Enviva last month was swift and brutal. The story’s not over yet for all of the company’s investors (for an extremely thorough analysis, check out our distressed team’s deep-dive report) but it is for at least one of them: Inclusive Capital.

Founded just a few short years ago to great fanfare, Jeff Ubben’s much-vaunted ESG activism fund closed its doors around the same time that Enviva’s capital structure fell apart. What can the implosion of these two entities tell us about the state of ESG in America?

For this week’s episode of Cloud 9fin, our US managing editor Will Caiger-Smith quizzes senior reporter Sasha Padbidri on these interlinked stories. Listen now to end the year on a cheery note.