Property Management Growth with DoorGrow DGS 321: The Property Manager's Contract Playbook - Lessons from the Field
When creating your property management and lease agreements, there may be crucial pieces of information you are missing that could proactively protect you and your team…
In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Tim Baldwin from Property Management Law Solutions to talk about proactive strategies like scheduled inspections, maintenance plans, helping landlords stay ahead of costly problems, avoiding crisis mode, ensuring long-term property health, and more.
You'll Learn
[3:06] Creating Effective Property Management Agreements
[8:34] Mold Addendums, Resident Benefits Packages, & More
[12:44] Building Efficient Property Management Systems
Quotables"A lot of property management business owners view these contracts as just a protection that happens once you're legally at war with somebody. Instead of a proactive preemptive measure."
"A lot of times it doesn't even matter what is written in the contract, it matters what they think is in the contract, the tenant or the owner."
"We don't want to just be adding more bells and whistles and services if it's not actually going to be a profit center."
Resources TranscriptTim Baldwin (00:00)
property management companies need to make sure that both of those agreements really take their business from the beginning of how they operate to at the end of the tenancy and even the move out process and what governs those relationships.
Jason Hull (00:00)
sure, property management companies need to make sure that both of those agreements really take their business from the beginning of how they operate to the end of the tenancy and even the move out process and what governs those
All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We talked to thousands of property management business owners. We've coached hundreds.
helping them figure out how to grow their business. And at DoorGrow, we believe good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. So today, I'm hanging out with
Tim Baldwin, welcome Tim. Thank you, Jason. And Tim is with a company called Property Management Law Solutions. So Tim, give the audience a little bit of background about you and how you kind of got connected to property management, how you kind of started into entrepreneurism. Give us a little bit of your journey. Yeah.
Tim Baldwin (01:05)
Thank you, Jason.
Yeah, so I
am an attorney in Florida. I've been licensed to practice law for almost 22 years. I started out as a prosecutor when I was just out of law school. And then in 2006, I started my own practice. And when I did that, I wanted to enter into an area of law that really there weren't a lot of attorneys practicing. And so that led me to property managers, property management itself, and to the landlord business.
Jason Hull (01:42)
enter
Got it. Okay, cool. Yeah.
Tim Baldwin (01:54)
Since 2006, I really have specialized primarily in this area of law. And so for the past 20 years, I have developed a clientele throughout the state of Florida with my law firm, which is Property Management Law Solutions. And we help landlords, property owners, apartments, and property management companies across the state of Florida.
Jason Hull (02:18)
And Florida usually is right in line with all the new stuff going on. There's California and Florida. So I'm sure you see some of the new stuff that's probably headed your way from California eventually maybe.
Tim Baldwin (02:27)
You
We're sort of on a different spectrum,
I guess you might say in California, but yeah.
Jason Hull (02:38)
Yeah,
yeah, totally. So, okay, well, yeah, I'm really interested in getting into the topic at hand. we're gonna be talking about.
proactive strategies like scheduled inspections, maintenance plans, helping landlords stay ahead of costly problems, avoiding crisis mode, ensuring long-term property health, and several other things. There's a lot. So where should we begin?
Tim Baldwin (03:06)
I think the place to begin really for property managers and landlords is making sure they have the foundations correct. And I think a huge part of that is the lease agreement. The lease agreement is the operations document essentially. And that's where every property manager really should start when it comes to managing property. if you want to head dive into that, I'd be glad to talk about that topic.
Jason Hull (03:12)
sure they have the foundations correct.
Yeah, let's do it.
Tim Baldwin (03:30)
Well, like I said, it is the foundational document, just the operational document you have with tenants. And Jason, what I've seen throughout the years is sort of this common theme that landlords, property managers don't quite understand the significance of the lease and how ⁓ to see it as their business document, as their operations document, because that document is what
Jason Hull (03:30)
Well, like I said, it is the foundational.
you know this was seen throughout the years is sort of this common theme that landlords that you know property manager managers I don't quite understand the significance of the lease and how to how to see it as their business document as their operations document because that document is what
you know obligates the tenants to act or not act in a certain way.
Tim Baldwin (03:58)
obligates the tenants to act or not act in a certain way. It
gives the landlords the enforcement mechanism to run their business the way that they want to run it, as long as it's in compliance with the statute, of course. And so that part of it is ⁓ just absolutely critical. And it should address all of the various topics and ⁓ parts of the property management business that property managers see
Jason Hull (04:03)
It gives the landlords the enforcement mechanism to run their business the way that they want to run it as long as it's in compliance with the statute of course. Sure. And so that part of it is just absolutely critical and it should address all of the various topics and parts of the property management business that property managers
see not just from a day to day standpoint but also the
Tim Baldwin (04:27)
not just from a day-to-day standpoint, but also the sort
of the more rare instances or the occasions where it are unusual, but yet the lease still addresses those topics.
Jason Hull (04:31)
So are there more rare instances or the occasions where it are unusual but yet the lease still addresses those
topics? Yeah, so Tim, I totally agree with you. One of the challenges I see is that usually when it comes to contracts, lot of property management business owners view these contracts as just a protection that happens once you're legally at war with somebody. Instead of a proactive preemptive measure,
of setting boundaries and expectations that can create a healthier relationship. so a lot of times it doesn't even matter what is written in the contract, it matters what they think is in the contract, the tenant or the owner. And so this is why we coach our clients on making sure that you do a review through the entire agreement with them and you use that as, like you're saying, as a document to help change things operationally.
You go through with them and explain to the tenant, this is what we expect from you. This is when rents due. This is the consequence. Do you understand this? Because it matters what they understand is in the agreement if you want them to be a better tenant or better owner. Otherwise, the document's really just a tool to go to war with somebody once you're in complete chaos. And there's a major issue. And we don't want to be in those situations. We want agreements. And yes, we want to protect ourselves.
Tim Baldwin (05:39)
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Jason Hull (05:52)
But even better is if we use it as an onboarding tool.
Tim Baldwin (05:56)
You know, you're exactly right. mean, the education part of this is critical so that tenants know what to expect and sort of preparing onboarding documents that of course reflect what the lease provides. And sort of in tandem with that is the property management agreement itself. So property managers, knowing what they want in their business, knowing how they're going to operate, you mentioned inspections, know, having the criteria of when it is that you're going to inspect the property.
Jason Hull (05:56)
Yeah, we are.
sort of entanglement with that is
Tim Baldwin (06:24)
You know, if there's ⁓ additional inspections that may come up, whether it's owner requested or maybe it's an incidental that requires you to go inspect. So the property management agreement is just as important on the owner's side of things. And the lease in the property management agreement need to align with each other because you don't want to obligate yourself sort of on one end with the property management agreement, but then not have those enforcement mechanisms on the tenant side of things within the lease agreement.
Jason Hull (06:24)
⁓ You know, there's additional inspections that may come up whether it's only requested or maybe it's an incidental that requires you to go expect so that the property management agreement is just as important important on the owner's side of things and the lease in the property management agreement needs to align with each other because you don't want to obviate yourself sort of on one end with the property management agreement but then not have those enforcement mechanisms on the tenant side of things within the lease
agreement.
Got it, yeah. So if it's important for the tenant and the owners agreements for them to be able to understand these, how important is it for these documents to be plain language versus legal speak?
Tim Baldwin (07:10)
Well, I mean, it's hard to get away from some of the legal speak if you want to call it that just because it's just like whenever you go close on a property. mean, you know, probably your audience is very familiar with that. I mean, there's just document after document. know, so it obviously can be put in plain terms, but it's not even so much about whether it's going to put in plain terms versus legalese, but rather which subject matter is going to be addressed.
That's the more important part of either one of these agreements, the property management agreement or the lease agreement. And so really, ⁓ landlords out there need to make sure, property management companies need to make sure that both of those agreements really take their business from the beginning of how they operate to at the end of the tenancy and even the move out process and what governs those relationships.
Jason Hull (07:37)
either one of these agreements, the property management agreement or the lease agreement. so really landlords out there need to make sure, property management companies need to make sure that both of those agreements really take their business from the beginning of how they operate to the end of the tenancy and even the move out process and what governs those relationships.
Got it. So if they've got these really great agreements in place, hopefully maybe the language is
easy enough for them to be able to read it and understand it a bit so it's not super thick like some of the business stuff I've signed in the past. And then, and it's got like all these proactive things like inspections, rent increases are built in and some of these things that it prevents later problems and later challenges.
so they don't run into these scenarios where now it's a battle or someone's upset or there's a new negotiation that has to happen. What are some of the most critical things that you're seeing that people need to be putting into these agreements?
Tim Baldwin (08:40)
Well, aside from just what you might consider to be the typical areas of interest in a lease agreement, what we're seeing a lot nowadays and really for the past few years, a really significant increase in tenant complaints with regard to mold. It's a really, really hot issue. And so having a mold addendum that really...
provides the nuts and bolts of what is the obligation of the landlord and the tenant when it comes to a claim for mold. ⁓ It's kind of a fact I just did a podcast or a seminar, mean, a seminar on this ⁓ last week ⁓ on this issue. And because really this is a topic that for years attorneys did not, I don't think even myself included, didn't really properly...
Jason Hull (09:02)
I
when it comes to a claim for more. It's kind of that type of just need a podcast or a seminar, mean a seminar on this last week on this issue. And because really this is a topic that for years, attorneys did not, don't think even myself included, didn't really properly
address to the fullest. But since we see it so regularly now, we have a motor venom that provides for what the...
Tim Baldwin (09:27)
addressed to the fullest. But since we see it so regularly now, you know, we have a molded end of that provides for what the parties are to
do in that event. So that's, that's a really big one. You mentioned maintenance. That's another big win ⁓ to where landlords need to be able to put some of the minor maintenance obligations on tenants because what is what's happening. And I'm sure your audience has experienced this before.
Jason Hull (09:37)
to in that event. So that's a really big one. You mentioned maintenance. That's another big one to where landlords need to be able to put some of the minor maintenance obligations on tenants because what's happening, and I'm sure your audience has experienced this
before, is that the tenants expect the landlords to just do everything, mean, down to changing out a light bulb. So if those things are not addressed in the lease, the landlords can really...
Tim Baldwin (09:54)
is that the tenants expect the landlords to just do everything. I down to changing out a light bulb. And so if those things are not addressed in the lease, the landlords can really find
themselves spinning their wheels and just having a hard time with informing the tenants, no, this is your responsibility. But if they can't point to it in a lease, it becomes problematic for the landlord. So those are two big issues that we see a whole lot.
Jason Hull (10:05)
So just making sure there's really strong clarity related to maintenance, clarity related to mold. Mold's got to be a big issue in Florida. You guys have crazy humidity there. ⁓
Tim Baldwin (10:31)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Hull (10:34)
Not as big a deal in California,
Tim Baldwin (10:34)
It is.
Jason Hull (10:35)
which is pretty dry, but yeah, still an issue. Anything else that you're seeing? What about maybe like, there's been a lot of push in the last several years for resident benefits packages and putting some additional fees onto the tenants?
Tim Baldwin (10:52)
Yeah, yeah, the revenue
stream is very important, of course, for property management companies and they're trying to figure out ways of creating those additional revenue centers. And one of them is, of course, tenant benefit packages. There's a variety of vendors that try to sort of pull those together into one package so that whatever it is that they're providing to the tenants, you can sort of get it all in one place. Some property management companies are creating sort of ⁓
Jason Hull (11:07)
Mm-hmm.
whatever it is that they're providing to the tenants, you can sort of keep it all in one place. Some popular companies are creating ⁓
Tim Baldwin (11:21)
those incidentals on their own, whether it's insurance coverage, certain amenities, credit building,
Jason Hull (11:21)
those incidentals on their own. Whether it's insurance coverage, I'm sorry. ⁓ Filters. Yeah, credit building. Yeah.
Tim Baldwin (11:35)
online portals, and these types of things. sort of this bulk. And then, of course, you've got to price it out correctly to make sure you're not losing money.
Jason Hull (11:37)
these types of things are sort of this ball. And then of course you gotta price it out correctly to make sure you're not losing money.
Tim Baldwin (11:44)
Another thing that ⁓ is fairly common and popular nowadays is sort of having these legal services, not legal services, but they're helping to reduce the cost of legal expenses in the event you have an eviction, covering costs or if you want to cover rent that the tenant hasn't paid up to
Jason Hull (11:45)
Another thing that is fairly common in popular nowadays is sort of having these legal service, they're not legal services, but they're helping to reduce the cost of legal expenses and eventually have an addiction covering costs or if you wanna cover rent that the tenant hasn't paid.
Tim Baldwin (12:05)
a certain amount. There's all these types of things that are ⁓ becoming more more popular, but as I...
Jason Hull (12:06)
up to a certain amount, know, all these types of things that are becoming more more popular.
as I say to everybody that comes to me in this regard, you really got to make sure you're punching the numbers properly. You don't want to be losing money. And sometimes it has to do with how many properties you manage because you can leverage the numbers to create a bigger and better benefit for the tenants as well as for the property owners.
Tim Baldwin (12:13)
say to every client that comes to me in this regard, you really got to make sure you're crunching the numbers properly. You don't want to be losing money and sometimes it has to do with how many properties you manage because you can leverage the numbers to create a bigger and better benefit for the tenants as well as for the property owners.
Jason Hull (12:34)
Yeah, that makes sense. Obviously, we don't want to just be adding more more bells and whistles and services if it's not actually going to be a profit center, if we're going to be losing money. Cool. So now you mentioned, you know, in preparation for this, you know, it says, Tim will also discuss how consistency, documentation, structured maintenance routines.
Tim Baldwin (12:43)
Exactly.
Jason Hull (12:55)
not only prevent maintenance, like prevent emergencies, but also build lasting value and trust with tenants. And so let's get into that a little bit.
Tim Baldwin (13:03)
Yeah, well everything that the property manager does really needs to be mapped out. Again, starting from the very beginning of creating this tenancy all the way through to the end of it is that the property managers need to know, you know, here's what I'm going to inspect. These are the services that we're going to provide. This is how we're going to process towards end of the lease processes. For an example, requiring tenants who are already placed
Jason Hull (13:04)
Yeah,
who are already
placed to apply again to make sure that they still qualify to renew that lease. So having all of these touchstones, if you will, throughout the tenancy, those things really need to be mapped out in advance, put into your calendar, having the proper forms that relate to whatever it is that you're doing so you can notify the tenant, hey, this is coming up, or hey, we're going to be here doing this, or hey, the end of your lease is coming up.
Tim Baldwin (13:28)
to apply again, to make sure that they still qualify to renew that lease. So having all of these touchstones, if you will, throughout the tenancy, those things really need to be mapped out in advance, put into your calendar, having the proper forms that relate to whatever it is that you're doing so you can notify the tenant, hey, this is coming up, or hey, we're gonna be here doing this, ⁓ or hey, the end of your lease is coming up, we need
to know what you're going to do. ⁓
Jason Hull (13:55)
We need to know what you're going to do.
Tim Baldwin (13:58)
It really is, ⁓ the structure itself helps to reduce the amount of wasted time. It sort of seems oxymoronic to say, if I put more effort into the management, into the steps of the process, that's gonna take time. But in reality, when you make it a system and these things become automatic, and that it becomes part of what your team does on
Jason Hull (13:58)
it really is the structure itself helps to reduce the amount of wasted time. It sort of seems oxymoronic to say, if I put more effort into the management, into the steps of the process, that's going to take time. But in reality, when you make it a system, these things become automatic in that it becomes part of what your team does.
Tim Baldwin (14:22)
the routine, it does reduce a lot of time with confusion.
Jason Hull (14:22)
on the routine, does reduce a lot of time with confusion,
Tim Baldwin (14:27)
know, miscommunication, missing things that you should have caught, and then making sure that you know which tenants should be renewed and which ones shouldn't be renewed. So all these things work together to make management a more efficient system.
Jason Hull (14:27)
miscommunication, missing things that you should have caught, and then making sure that you know which tenants should be renewed and which ones shouldn't be renewed. So all these things work together to make management a more efficient system. Got it. So a lot of property managers probably initially tried to do everything themselves. That's like what entrepreneurs do. They're like, I'll figure it out.
Tim Baldwin (14:48)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Hull (14:51)
I'll go
ask AI, I'll go watch some YouTube videos. I don't know if I need a lawyer. I don't know. And they try and figure this stuff out themselves. What are some of the challenges that you see that kind of reveal to you why your business exists? Obviously your business exists to solve some real problems. So why would they need PM Law Solutions?
Tim Baldwin (15:14)
Well, it's kind of like
what you're doing in the sense that when you have a service that's servicing a need for property managers, you're the professional, you have the training, you have the experience, you have the knowledge to help managers deal with really what they shouldn't have to be dealing with on the day to day. So from my standpoint, of course, property managers are not lawyers. Well, it's more than just law.
Jason Hull (15:38)
It's more than just
law. It's seeing the big picture, it's seeing the full scope of how you get from point A to point Z seamlessly, efficiently, with productivity. And so having the professionals to help you streamline what you're doing, make sure you're doing it properly, make sure you're doing it to reduce the risks of liability is all part of what a professional should be helping you with, whether it's an attorney or even somebody like yourself who says, you want to grow?
Tim Baldwin (15:39)
It's seeing the big picture, it's seeing the full scope of how you get from point A to point Z seamlessly, efficiently, with productivity. And so having the professionals to help you streamline what you're doing, make sure you're doing it properly, make sure you're doing it to reduce the risks of liability ⁓ is all part of what a professional should be helping you with, whether it's an attorney or even somebody like yourself who says, hey, you want to grow?
you want
more business, you want to be able to do it with more profit, then these are the steps you need to be taking. So any professional that's servicing that kind of a company, first of all, they should have something that they're providing that is the benefit and it has the value that they're paying for that service.
Jason Hull (16:08)
you want more business, you want to be able to do it for a profit, and these are the steps you need to be taking. So any professional that's servicing that kind of a company, first of all, they should have something that they're providing that is the benefit and it has the value that they're paying for that
service. So what are some of the, I'd love you to tell the audience a little bit about property management law solutions and why they should maybe entertain a conversation with you.
why your company might be beneficial, how you could help them with some of the stuff we've been chatting about. Tell us a little bit about the business.
Tim Baldwin (16:44)
Yeah, well, this is our specialty. So everything that we
do in this office is designed to help landlords, property owners in their rental business. We do some other things as well, real estate related, but the bulk of what we do is helping property management companies and landlords. so, ⁓ you know, again, it's setting up your system and your business correctly. It's getting those foundational documents. Also, you're getting sort of that library of resources and knowledge that you need.
Jason Hull (16:58)
And so, ⁓ you know, again,
sort of that library of resources and knowledge that
you need, the training and education so that you're ⁓ managing properties the proper way. And so we can spot issues anytime you run into a situation where, hey, what do I do? This is what the tenant is saying. I'm not sure, you know, what is my standing here? What is my position here? How do I reduce my risk of liability? That's what an attorney who specializes in this area can help them do.
Tim Baldwin (17:10)
the training and education so that you're ⁓ managing properties the proper way. And so ⁓ we can spot issues anytime you run into a situation to where, what do I do? This is what the tenant is saying. I'm not sure. You know, what is my standing here? What is my position here? How do I reduce my risk of liability? That's what an attorney who specializes in this area can help them do.
Not to mention help them with, again, the streamlining aspect of what they do because
Jason Hull (17:35)
not to mention help them with the streamlining aspect of what they do
because property management business itself as you well know Jason is one that you have to really work on those margins to make sure that you're making a profit. So when you're wasting time and you're spending money unnecessarily it really can eat into that profit margin. So property management companies have us on retainer.
Tim Baldwin (17:40)
Property management, the property management business itself, as you well know, Jason, is one that you have to really work on those margins to make sure that you're making a profit. And so when you're wasting time and you're spending money unnecessarily, it really can eat into that profit margin. So property management companies ⁓ have us on retainer to really
help them make sure that they're doing business the right way in that regard. We help them with ⁓ drafting those documents they need.
Jason Hull (18:02)
to really help them make sure that they're doing business the right way in that regard. We help them with drafting those documents they
Tim Baldwin (18:09)
with giving that legal advice. If they ever do have a legal contest or dispute in some way, we step in to help resolve it quickly, to try to avoid litigation, to resolve matters before they get out of hand. So having a law firm really help you at the beginning of things and earlier on tends to really help them save a lot of money and a lot of waste
Jason Hull (18:09)
need, with giving that legal advice. If they ever do have a legal contest or dispute in some way, we step in and help resolve it quickly to try to avoid litigation, to resolve matters before they get out of hand. So having a law firm really help you at the beginning of things and earlier on tends to really help them save a lot of money.
Tim Baldwin (18:32)
of time.
Jason Hull (18:32)
Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Prevents a lot of major problems and major headaches later that could be very costly in terms of time and money. Got it. Cool. Well, Tim, I appreciate you coming here and hanging out with us on the DoorGrow show. Real quick word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by KRS SmartBooks, the bookkeeping team, property manager's trust when they're serious about growth. So listen, the holidays are busy enough.
Tim Baldwin (18:38)
Yeah, absolutely.
Jason Hull (18:55)
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If you enroll before December 31st, you'll get 30 % off your first month of bookkeeping. That's real savings and a real chance to start the new year with clarity instead of chaos. Visit krsbooks.com and mention DoorGrow on your intake form to unlock your discount. So, in final words, like in wrapping up, what would you like to say to all the property management business owners out there that are maybe
relevant to your business, you only deal with Florida, correct? For now. For now, okay. Okay, so if they're Florida property manager, if they're not a Florida property manager currently, where would you send people? Like how do they find somebody that's gonna be a good resource similar to you in another state? Well, the association is...
Tim Baldwin (19:44)
For now, we are expanding outside of Florida, but yes.
Well, the associations, ⁓ apartment
associations, residential property management association may have some referrals in that way. And so I would probably start there. You can look at the bar association websites in those states to see if there are attorneys who hold themselves out as experts or specialists in that area of law. Those are two common ways of doing it. Obviously you could do a Google search, but trying to find someone.
Jason Hull (20:11)
Okay.
and hold.
you can do Google search but trying to
find someone and I would encourage your audience to find the right law firm that fits the way you like to do business, who fits your personality, that you can easily communicate with, that you're able to get in contact with them in fairly short order. Those are critical components of having a landlord attorney because in that business things can happen and do happen.
Tim Baldwin (20:27)
I would encourage your audience to find the right law firm that fits the way you like to do business, who fits your personality, that you can easily communicate with, that you're able to get in contact with them in fairly short order. Those are critical components of having a landlord attorney because in that business, things can happen and do happen very quickly
and so having a timely response is important.
So you might reach out to other companies or other landlords that you know in your network, start asking for referrals, do an interview, contact the law firm, ask them if you can talk to them about what they can provide to you, what their cost is, obviously, and see if that is a good fit for you.
Jason Hull (21:13)
Got it. So if they're in Florida, how do they get in touch with you?
Tim Baldwin (21:18)
Several ways they can look us up on our website which is PMLawSolutions.com. You can also go to LinkedIn, look at my name, Tim Baldwin, or Property Management Law Solutions. You can find me on LinkedIn. if you want to call our office, you can do that as well at 850-857-2463.
Jason Hull (21:31)
speak. But if you want to call our office, you can do that as well at
850-857-2463. Perfect. All right, Tim, appreciate you coming out and hanging out here with me here on the DoorGrow show. My pleasure, Jason. Thank you. All right. So for those of you, if you are struggling to figure out how to grow your property management business, we are the best in the world at that here at DoorGrow.
Tim Baldwin (21:44)
My pleasure, Jason. Thank you.
Jason Hull (21:55)
Reach out to us. would love to see if we could help and take a look at your business if you want to get to the next level. If you would like a free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to 512-648-4608 and we'll send it to you. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you would like to get the best ideas in property management, join our newsletter.
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