Property Management Growth with DoorGrow

We are living in a post-trust era. Trust is at an all-time low, and people are more on guard than ever. How does this impact the property management industry? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Darryl Stickel of Trust Unlimited to talk all about building and maintaining trust. You’ll Learn [01:30] The Foundations of Building Trust [06:51] Where Uncertainty Comes From and How to Eliminate it [11:37] The Golden Bridge Formula [21:27] The Role of Vulnerability in Building Trust [31:49] AI and the Post-Trust Era Quotables “Sales and deals happen at the speed of trust.” “Trust is the willingness to be vulnerable when you can't completely predict how someone else is going to behave.” “There's three levers within us as individuals, and those are benevolence, integrity, and ability.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) This is really what property managers sell. They sell trust. They don't really sell property management.   Darryl (00:03) Yeah. Jason Hull (00:05) All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we've cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses. We run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. And at DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. And today, I am hanging out with Darryl Stickel of Trust Unlimited. Welcome, Darryl to the DoorGrow Show. Darryl (01:26) Thanks for having me, Jason. It's a pleasure to be here. Jason Hull (01:29) It's great to have you. So I'm really excited about the topic of trust because I talk about this all the time. In fact, one of my most common phrases that I say to clients when talking about sales is that sales and deals happen at the speed of trust. And so I'm excited to get into this. So give us a little bit of background on you and then we'll get into the topic at hand. So tell us a little bit about Darryl and how you sort of Darryl (01:45) They do, yeah. Jason Hull (01:56) arrived at Trust Unlimited. Darryl (01:59) Yeah. So I was born and raised in a small town in Northern British Columbia, Canada, fairly isolated community, harsh winter conditions. And so people learned that they had to pull together and it meant that you needed to look out for your neighbor and that if you could help someone, you should. And so growing up in that background, I had a sense of responsibility to others, desire to be helpful. When I was 17 years old, I was playing hockey in a neighboring community and I was attacked by a fan at the club. And he shattered my helmet, knocked me unconscious. I ended up with a severe concussion and I had a visual impairment. I knew that I was going to become legally blind, which I am now. So my plan had been to think for a living. Jason Hull (02:32) I ended up with a severe concussion. And I had a visual impairment. Hmm. ⁓ Darryl (02:46) And now all of a sudden I had the attention span of a fruit fly and I couldn't think. and so this experience promoted a sense of empathy for me because there were such feelings of, of helplessness and hopelessness. And fast forward a few years and I'm studying psychology and moving towards becoming a clinical psychologist. And people would just come up to me and.   Jason Hull (02:52) And so this experience promoted a sense of empathy. I like... Yeah. Darryl (03:08) start telling me their problems. I'd be sitting on a bus and a complete stranger would sit down next to me and say, I'm really having a hard time. And so I wanted to understand why that was happening. And I went and did a master's degree in public administration, worked in native land claims in British Columbia. And they would ask me these sort of deep philosophical questions like, what is self-government or what will the problems look like 50 years after claims are settled? Jason Hull (03:15) So I went to understand why that was happening. And I went to do the master's degree in public administration. I worked in native land claims in British Columbia. They would ask me certain questions like what is self-government? What will the province look like 50 years after claims are settled? The last question they asked me was how do I condescend people who have shafted for over 100 years and should trust us? I thought man, that's Darryl (03:35) The last question they asked me was how do I convince a group of people who have shafted for over a hundred years, they should trust us? I thought, man, that's a good question. So I went to Duke, wrote my doctoral thesis on building trust in hostile environments. Um, had a couple of leading experts in the field of trust on my committee. And when I finished, they said, you know, when you first started, we first came to us, we had a conversation. We agreed too big, too complex. He never solves it. Jason Hull (03:43) So I went to Duke, wrote my doctoral thesis on building trust in hostile environments. Had a couple of leading experts in the field of trust on my committee. And when I finished, said, you know, when you first started, when you first came to us, we had a conversation. We agreed, too big, too complex, you never saw us. Darryl (04:03) We'll give him six months and then he'll come crawling back to us and we'll let him chisel off a little piece of this and that'll be his thesis. I said, six months in, you were so far beyond us, we couldn't help anymore. All we could do was sit and listen. And here we are years later, we think you've solved it. And so I went and worked for McKinsey and Company, a big management consulting firm, and got to start applying the concepts that I'd learned. Jason Hull (04:03) gave him six months to come from the back to us. we just left with a piece of this. would be the thesis. He said six months in, you were so far beyond us, couldn't help it. All we could do was send him us. And here we are years later, we're all sold. And so I went and worked for McKinsey Company, a big management consultant for him. Yeah. Darryl (04:25) And then on the way to a client side, was involved in a car accident, ended up with post-concussion syndrome again, and couldn't work those kinds of hours anymore. So I just started a small company called Trust Unlimited and started helping people better understand what trust was, what it is, how it works, and most importantly, how to build it. Jason Hull (04:36) started helping people better understand what trust was, what it is, how it works, and most importantly how it goes. And that's quite the journey. That's quite the story. And so now this is what your, this is your gig. This is what you focus on. You focus on helping people understand trust. Yeah. Darryl (04:52) Yeah, it's what I've devoted my career and my life to. And so for the last 20 years, I've been helping nonprofits, private sector, public sector, Canadian military got me to help them figure out how to try to build trust with the locals in Afghanistan. Yeah, so I've been trying to help solve problems. Jason Hull (05:10) Well, let's make this one of those opportunities for you to help some people that are listening figure out this challenge of trust. Because trust, really feel like, is fundamental and foundational to any relationship and to sales and to growing a business and all of that. Darryl (05:27) It is. It's so critical for your audience because they need the trust of the property owners, but they also need the trust of the tenants. They act as an intermediary and so they need to be experts at building relationships with others. Jason Hull (05:36) Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I'm sure this is, I don't know if this can be answered in a short time period, but give us an idea of how do we create trust from scratch? How do we make this work? What did you figure out? Darryl (05:56) Yeah, so we start with the definition, trust is the willingness to be vulnerable when you can't completely predict how someone else is going to behave. And that definition has two elements in it. It's got perceived uncertainty and perceived vulnerability. And those actually multiply together to give us a level of perceived risk. So we've got uncertainty times vulnerability gives us a level of perceived risk. We each have a threshold of risk that we can tolerate. Jason Hull (06:03) Okay. Darryl (06:21) If we go beyond that threshold, we don't trust. If we're beneath it, then we do. And so.   If we want to understand trust, need to understand where does uncertainty come from? Where do perceptions of vulnerability come from? And how do we take steps to manage those? Because early in a relationship, uncertainty is really high. means we can only tolerate a small range of vulnerability and still fit beneath that threshold. As that relationship gets deeper, the uncertainty declines, the range of vulnerability we can tolerate starts to grow. Jason Hull (06:41) Right. that relationship gets deeper, the uncertainty declines, the range of vulnerability increases. And so really, for your audience, it's going to be about how do I take steps to understand somebody else's uncertainty. Darryl (06:51) And so really for your audience, it's going to be about how do I take steps to understand somebody else's uncertainty? How do I help reduce it? Jason Hull (07:00) What are some typical examples of uncertainty that people might have? Darryl (07:06) Yeah. So uncertainty comes from two places. comes from us as individuals and it comes from the context we're embedded in. And so for owners, their uncertainty is what are the tenants doing? How are they treating the property? Is it going to be well maintained? Are they going to pay on time? And so property managers can help manage that by helping them set up contracts, helping. Jason Hull (07:17) Hmm. Yeah. Darryl (07:31) by reviewing the property on an occasional basis, monitoring behavior patterns for tenants, understanding tenant behavior in a way that most property managers don't have the opportunity to, or property owners don't have the property, because you see a much broader swath of humanity than the typical property owner does. You're more engaged, you're on the ground. And so, Jason Hull (07:35) monitoring behavior patterns for tenants, understanding tenant behavior in way that most property managers... Because you see a much broader swath of humanity than the typical property of the country. You're more engaged, you're on the ground. And so if we start to think about how we reduce uncertainty, uncertainty comes from me and it comes from the context. Well, what are the things that I can do as a property manager to reduce some of this uncertainty? Darryl (07:59) If we start to think about how we reduce uncertainty, uncertainty comes from me and it comes from the context. Well, what are the things that I can do as a property manager to reduce somebody's uncertainty? There's three levers within us as individuals, and those are benevolence, integrity, and ability. Jason Hull (08:18) benevolence you said in integrity what was the last what was the third one ability ability yeah okay got it I got it okay Darryl (08:19) integrity and ability and benevolence is just ability, competence. Yeah. Can I do the job?   And so Jason, we, all have the ability to build trust with others. Just some are better than others at it. Those who aren't very good have a lever that they pull and they pull that lever over and over again and just hope it lines up. Those who are better have multiple levers. Those who are really good have multiple levers and they know when to pull which one. And so. Jason Hull (08:37) This one. Hmm. ⁓ So what I do is I walk people through the different levers and help explain how to pull them. So benevolence is just the belief you got my best interest. Darryl (08:54) What I do is I walk people through the different levers and then help explain how to pull them. So benevolence is just the belief you've got my best interest at heart and that you'll act in my best interest. Jason Hull (09:03) Right. Darryl (09:06) So as a property manager, you're thinking about what does the property owner's best interest look like? What does success look like for them? How do I help them get there? Integrity is do I follow through on my promises and do my actions line up with the values that I express? Jason Hull (09:16) integrity is do I follow through on my promises? ⁓   Darryl (09:22) And so what are the both the explicit promises I'm making to people and the implied promises, the things that they're expecting from me. And then ability is, I actually have the competence to do the job? And a lot of times when we pull the ability lever, we make assumptions about what excellence looks like, but we don't include the other person in that conversation. Jason Hull (09:41) Hmm. Okay. Darryl (09:41) So as a property manager, you may think having the right forms in place and, you know, having a scheduled set of routines and you've got an idea of what excellence looks like. But if you actually included your stakeholders in that conversation, you might come up with a different list of things. And that's both the property owner and the tenant. Jason Hull (09:49) scheduled set of routines and you've got an idea of what essence of something. But if you actually included your stakeholders in that conversation, like both the property owner and tenant. Darryl (10:03) So including them in that conversation can be really eye-opening. Jason Hull (10:03) So including them in that conversation could be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah, just making sure you're both on the same page. Darryl (10:09) And then exactly. And we interpret the world through stories. one of the challenges that your audience faces is that they may have a story about what's going on with the property. The owner might have a different story and the tenant might have a third story. And that's where we run into conflict. Jason Hull (10:14) What are the challenges that your audience faces? they may have a story about what's going on. Yeah. Right. And so if we're not active, you know, a lot of times I'll talk to owners and senior executives and I'll tell them about those three levers and they'll say, well, I do all Darryl (10:29) And so if we're not active, you know, a lot of times I'll talk to owners and senior executives and I'll tell them about those three levers and they'll say, well, I do all those things. And my response will always be says who, because if it's me telling you I'm benevolent, Jason, it doesn't carry a lot of freight. You have to actually believe it. Right. So I need to include you in the conversation to understand. Jason Hull (10:42) And my response will always be, says who? Because if it's me telling you about the devil, Jason, going to carry a lot of freight. Right. I need to include you in the conversation to understand what are your best interests? How do I help you be successful? What are your best Darryl (10:56) What are your best interests? How do I help you be successful? What are your values? What are your, what's your understanding of my values and the actions I take? And can I tell a story about each decision I make and how it aligns with my values? Am I transparent about following through on my commitments? Do I say to you, I'm going to check the property every three months or every six months or once a year. Here's how I'm going to do that. Here's how I'm going to monitor.   Jason Hull (11:11) Okay. Am I transparent and I follow through on my commitments? Do I say to you, I'm going to check the property every three months or every six months or once a year? Here's how I'm going to do that. Here's how I'm going to monitor it. And then do I follow up with the owner and say, Darryl (11:28) And then do I follow up with the owner and say, as per our agreement or as per my commitment, this is me following up on the promise that I made. Jason Hull (11:31) As for our Okay, so Darryl, I love this. This aligns a lot with a book that I'm writing right now called The Golden Bridge Formula. And this Golden Bridge Formula is something that I've used in creating trust quickly in order to facilitate sales. And it's a formula that I've taught my clients. And I think it aligns really well with this. And the basic formula is, Darryl (11:44) Okay. Okay. Jason Hull (12:00) It's based on the idea that everybody trusts others to follow their own motives, to do what's in their best self-interest. We generally can trust that. And so the Golden Bridge formula is basically in simple form is me sharing my personal why, what drives and motivates me, connecting it to the business and the business's why, and then connecting the business why to the prospects why, or your targets why, like what they want. Darryl (12:07) Okay. Jason Hull (12:26) which means you have to figure out their why first, right? You gotta figure out and ask questions first and then you can share and reveal. You know, once you figure out what they want, you can share and where they wanna go. You can share your motives. so, the more extended version of the formula is personal why, what that means, plus the business why, what that means, which is where we get into the values of the company, stuff like this. And then connect it to the prospects why and what that would mean for them. And this is... Darryl (12:47) right. Jason Hull (12:52) One of my greatest shortcuts for getting somebody that's terrible at sales to do sales in an authentic way and dramatically increase their close rate. Because any objection really always boils down to, I don't trust you. That's really the only true objection in sales. I don't trust your product or your service enough to believe that it's worth the price or that it's actually gonna work or it's gonna benefit me. The one thing people trust is for others to be selfish. Darryl (13:00) Nice. Right. Jason Hull (13:20) They trust people to do what's in their best interest. So if I can share my motivation, my golden bridge, and the actual bridge is the business. The business is this vehicle that gets me what I want and it gets my client what they want, right? And so if I can relate that, it creates this connection where we can both trust each other because if I'm selfish, I am able to help them and I get what I want. And so I'll give you my example. Darryl (13:34) Right. Jason Hull (13:46) personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. And so what that means is I love learning what works and sharing it with other people. I would do that for free for fun. I love paying for it. I take it coaches and mentors and door grow secretly not so secretly exist because I love being able to spend a lot of money on coaches, mentors, programs to be able to learn new stuff that I can turn around and then benefit and share with other entrepreneurs, with my clients. Darryl (14:12) Great. Jason Hull (14:13) And they can trust that if I continue to do that, I'm going to benefit them. DoorGrow exists because everyone on my team, our why at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. And so everybody on my team buys into that. We want to see our clients win and we want to change their businesses. And so that's why they come to us. And so they know if they come to us that I'm going to continue to learn, I'm going to continue to share the best stuff that I can find. in hopes that we achieve this business goal because it selfishly feeds my addiction to learning and it's going to benefit them. It's a win-win-win for everybody that's involved. Darryl (14:46) Right. Yeah, that's a powerful approach, finding shared superordinate goals, right? Finding the overlap between wins for both of us. And partly that requires, you're right, the conversation with the other to find out what their goals and objectives are, how we help them be successful. It also requires an awareness on our part of what our goals and objectives are. Right. And I mean, for me, I'm trying to have a positive impact on the world. Jason Hull (14:55) Hmm. Yeah. It also requires an awareness on heart rate.   And I mean, for me, I'm trying to have a positive impact on the world. I get a charge out of it. Trying to make the world a place. And so I'm trying to get the signal through the noise. There's a number of folks who've said I'm one of the world's leading experts on trust. There's a couple of well-placed people who said I'm the guy. I'm just really trying to have as much positive impact as I can. Darryl (15:15) I get a charge out of trying to make the world better place. And so I'm trying to get the signal through the noise. There's a number of folks who've said, I'm one of the world's leading experts on trust. There's a couple of well-placed people who've said I'm the guy. Um, and I'm just really trying to have as much positive impact as I can. And you're right. It's selfish. I've got two sons that are 24 and 21. I want the world to be a better place for them. And I like it when people are able to be successful and have powerful, productive relationships because I believe that that's one of the few things we actually control. It's how we show up in the world, how we engage with others. Jason Hull (15:49) I love it. Yeah, great stuff Let's pause there and I'll share a little word from our sponsor and then we'll get back into the topic of trust because I really love this topic. And I know that this is super beneficial because This is really what property managers sell. They sell trust. They don't really sell property management. All right. So our sponsor is CoverPest. CoverPest is the easy and seamless way to add on-demand pest control to your resident benefit package. Residents love the simplicity of submitting a service request. Darryl (16:18) Yeah. Jason Hull (16:33) and how affordable it is compared to traditional pest control options. Investors love knowing that their property is kept pest free and property managers love getting their time back and making more revenue per door. Simply put, CoverPest is the easiest way to handle pest control issues at all your properties. To learn more and to get special door grow pricing, visit coverpest.com/doorgrow. That's coverpest.com/doorgrow. All right, Darryl. back to trust. Cool. I love this idea. You talked about benevolence, integrity, and your ability, and figuring out how to relate those in a way that is believable to others. I shared a little bit about my Golden Bridge formula. I'm curious what you think of that because you're the expert on trust. Maybe I'll have to quote you in my book or something. Darryl (17:04) Yeah. Right. Yeah. that'd be awesome. Yeah. So I think part of the DoorGrow principle or part of the golden bridge principle is finding a way to be benevolent and have it be transparent. Right. Because what I, the conversation I convince, or I get my clients, my coaching clients to go through is find someone to practice with. Cause that's how we really learn and have the following conversation. Jason Hull (17:37) Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Darryl (17:52) I heard this guy, Darryl, he was talking about trust. He said that benevolence is really important, which is just a fancy word for having someone's best interest or having their back. And I think I do that, but it doesn't always seem to land that way. Have you ever experienced that? Jason Hull (18:00) Sure, yeah,   Darryl (18:07) Yeah, and just what everyone has. And so... Now we get curious and we ask the other person, can you think of an example of when you tried to act on someone's behalf and it backfired or they had the wrong story? And it creates this conversation and it starts priming them. Then we narrow the funnel and we say, has someone ever really had your back? Have they ever really looked out for you? What did they do? How did it feel? Jason Hull (18:12) Now, we get curious and we ask the other person, can you think of an example of when you tried to act on someone's behalf and it backfired or they had the wrong story? And it creates this conversation and starts priming them. Then we narrow the funnel and we say, has someone ever really had your back? Have they ever really looked out for you? What did they do? How did it feel? Now we're priming them even more. Darryl (18:36) Now we're priming them even more and we're getting a chance to get some hints about what benevolence looks like for that person. So that when we do try to pull that lever, it really lands. Then we narrow the funnel further and we say, a success for you. How do I help you get there? What would it look like if I had your best interest at heart? And that's what you guys do every day when you're trying to help companies grow the number of doors that they sell. Jason Hull (18:38) And we're getting a chance to get some hints about what benevolence looks like to that person. So that when we do try to pull that lever, it really lands. Then we narrow the funnel further and say, what's success for you? How do I help you get there? What would it look like if I had your best interest and heart? And that's what you guys do every day when you're trying to help companies grow the number of doors that they sell. You're trying to help them be successful. Darryl (19:04) you're trying to help them be successful. And so. Jason Hull (19:08) Absolutely. It sounds like almost a variation of a common sales question that some call the crystal ball question, which is like, 12 months from now, if we were to work together, how would you know that this was a success? What would success look like? If this was a win for you, what would have been true for you to feel like this was really a great decision? Darryl (19:23) Right. Right. And then here's how I'm going to help you get there. And it opens up the opportunity for us to be transparent moving forward. Because we can say, you remember when you told me this is what mattered to you? This is what success looked like? This is me doing that. So there isn't room for misinterpretation or a crossing of the wires. Now context is the other element of uncertainty, right? It's the rules of the game. Jason Hull (19:41) This is me doing that. So there isn't room for misinterpretation or crossing the border. Now, context is the other element of uncertainty. Right? It's the rules of the game. And you just talked about pest cover. That's a way to change the context so that there's a structured system in place where people can respond more consistently. It reduces uncertainty. Darryl (19:55) and you just talked about CoverPest. that's a way to change the context so that there's a structured system in place where people can respond more consistently. It reduces uncertainty. Similar with the programs that you develop for your clients. was listening to one of your podcasts around leadership. You have offerings that help them change the context. So it becomes more automated, more consistent, which creates a greater consistency for property owners and for clients or tenants that you're interacting with.   Jason Hull (20:09) Similar with the programs that you develop for your clients. was listening to one of your podcasts around leadership. You have offerings that help them change the context so it becomes more automated, more consistent, which creates a greater consistency for property owners and for clients or tenants that you're interacting with. And so you're taking steps to reduce uncertainty. Darryl (20:34) And so you're taking steps to reduce uncertainty. So how do we have a conversation with property managers about doing that same thing, about putting rules and regulations in place that govern their behavior, that push them towards a more consistent place? Jason Hull (20:38) So how do we have a conversation with property managers about doing that same thing? About putting rules and regulations in place that govern their behavior, that push them towards a Yeah, yeah, could be, I mean, it's a lot of factors go into this, right? Like their company core values certainly is how they might go about doing this. Their policies and procedures goes into more specific tactical implementation of those values. And then you're getting into like, what's the motive behind it? Which is where we maybe define like some sort of external focused client centric mission statement. Which. Darryl (20:57) Yep. and the incentive structures and the job descriptions, right? Jason Hull (21:16) relates to that benevolence. Yeah,   so even with individual team members having really solid job descriptions where there's clear outcomes defined. Yeah. Darryl (21:27) Then we go to the vulnerability side of the equation. Sometimes a sale doesn't happen because people feel too vulnerable. They want to find a solution that's cheaper or easier. Think about ice cream stores that let you try a sampling of different flavors before you buy. Or retail outlets that have return policies that are very generous. These are all ways for them to reduce your perceived vulnerability. Jason Hull (21:27) And we could They want to find a solution that's cheaper or easier. Think about ice cream store. Yeah. Darryl (21:52) So if I'm trying to grow doors, partly I want to get referrals, but partly I also want to have an opportunity for people to try me out a little bit so that they can reduce that uncertainty so that we've got varying levels of vulnerability that they can experience with us so that our relationship with them can grow over time. And so does that mean that I'm having conversations with them, sharing information with them, giving things to them for free? Jason Hull (21:53) So if I'm trying to grow doors, partly I want to get referrals. But partly I also want to have an opportunity for people to try me out a little bit so that they can reduce that uncertainty so that we've got varying levels of vulnerability that they can experience with us. So that our relationship with them can grow over time. So does that mean that I'm having conversations with them, sharing information with them, giving things to them for free? Darryl (22:22) so that they start to get a better sense of who I am and what my why is, and they can see the consistency between my values that I've expressed and the actions I'm taking. Jason Hull (22:22) so that they start to get a better sense of who I am and what my line is. And they can see the consistency between the lines that I've expressed in the actual company. Darryl (22:32) Once we've made the trust decision, we have what I call perceived outcomes. So we can have exactly the same experience, but have dramatically different interpretation of what's just happened. And we, in the outcome section, we have two levers. There's was the outcome a success or a failure and who gets the credit, who gets the blame. And because we interpret the world through stories, if we're not active in the creation of the narrative, Jason Hull (22:32) Once we've made the trust decision, we have what I call perceived outcomes. So we can have exactly the same experience, but have dramatically different interpretation of what's just happened. And we, in the outcome section, we have two levers. There's, what is the outcome of success or failure? And who gets the credit? Who gets the blame? And because we interpret the world through stories, if we're not active in the creation of the narrative, Darryl (23:01) we run the risk of people coming up with a completely different story from ours. And that perceived outcome then feeds back into our next interaction with that same person. Jason Hull (23:02) we run the risk of people coming up with a completely different story from ours. And that perceived outcome that feeds back into our next day of rationing that same person. True. Yeah. In the middle of all this, Jason, is our emotional states. So 99 % of the trust research treats people like rational actors. You've met people, right? Darryl (23:13) In the middle of all this, Jason, is our emotional states. So 99 % of the trust research treats people like rational actors. You've met people, right? Jason Hull (23:24) Yeah, they're not rational actors. We're not. We're emotional actors. Yeah.   Darryl (23:25) we're not always rational. And the more emotional, yeah, the more emotional we become, the less rational we are. Right? And so we, need to find a way to reset those emotional states before we pull these other levers because otherwise we're just wasting our time. Jason Hull (23:35) Yeah. Right. So we need to find a way to reset those emotions. Right, yeah. If we start trying to attack their story or start trying to attack when they're already preloaded or angry with logic, it's not generally gonna be super effective. Darryl (23:55) doesn't tend to work. And so the research that I do and the doctoral thesis that I wrote is different from most of the trust research in a few different ways. One is I include context, which the other work tends not to, which helps explain why we trust some people without knowing anything about them, right? Go to a doctor's office. Doctor says, off your clothes and, and you do, right? Jason Hull (24:11) Hmm. Yeah, they're kind of an earned authority in some people's minds. They've got the lab coat and they are the person we were shown to after we got through the lobby. And so we're like, I guess I will do what they tell me to do unless it gets weird. Yeah. So now take that and shift it from a doctor's office to a gas station restroom. Same two people, guys wearing the white lab coat. Darryl (24:20) Yeah. Yeah. So now take that and shift it from a doctor's office to a gas station restroom. Same two people, guys wearing the white lab coat.   Same conversation, take off your clothes. goes from credible to creepy in a heartbeat, right? Jason Hull (24:42) Right, context is definitely going to have an impact. Darryl (24:46) And then I include vulnerability, which most of the trust research doesn't, which means that trust is a continuous variable, not a dichotomous one, right? Dichotomous variable means that it's like an old time light switch. It's either present or absent. Reality is we trust some people more than the others and the trust can grow and evolve over time. Yeah. And so what I do is I try to help people learn how to build deeper relationships. Jason Hull (24:51) which means that trust is a continuous forever. The conness variable means that it's like a Right. It's on or off. Yeah. Yeah. It's a spectrum. Darryl (25:15) so that they're more resilient. So that when something goes wrong, you don't lose clients. And when things go wrong, because they inevitably go wrong, right? Jason Hull (25:20) Right. Darryl (25:27) Our response is given the most positive story you can. Tenants who leave for one reason or another aren't bad mouthing our company or are less likely to. That's what trust buys us. Jason Hull (25:28) Our response is given the most positive story you can.   Tendents to leave for one reason or another aren't bad. likely to, that's what trespassers. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They give us the benefit of the doubt if we, and I think, you know, a lot of this is established even before the sale, during the sales process, that's how we get to the sale. And then afterwards, how we onboard them can have a massive impact so that they don't have buyer's remorse. And, you know, it's that beginning of the relationship because it's so fresh and new, it's where we're kind of establishing. Darryl (26:00) Yeah. Jason Hull (26:07) and showcasing benevolence, integrity, and ability, right? Darryl (26:11) That's right. And we're setting that story for the future interactions that we have so that they look for confirming evidence. Jason Hull (26:18) Yeah, because if we create some confirming strong evidence in the beginning and then something is out of congruence or there's something seems off to them, they may give us the benefit of the doubt. They may look at this and go, well, they've always been good to me in the past. So maybe something's off here. So they might be a little more open to having a conversation to understand why things went the way they did. Right. Darryl (26:39) Right, they might give you the opportunity to retain their business rather than just leave it. Jason Hull (26:44) Yeah, got it. Cool. Well, yeah, this is really fascinating. I really have enjoyed this. Is there anything in wrapping up that you feel would make a big impact for people that are wanting to increase this? Maybe how do they know how vulnerable to be without making themselves look like they're incompetent and hurt the ability thing? Yeah. Darryl (26:44) Yeah. Yeah. So share, don't scare, right? Yeah. ⁓ a lot of times when I talk about building trust, I talk about small dose of vulnerability, share, don't scare, you know, acknowledge that you're not perfect or that you don't know something or that you're curious about the other party. and heavy dose of benevolence. So Jason Hull (27:09) Yeah. Hmm. videos Darryl (27:26) really trying to find out what's in the best interest of the other party. ⁓ I think if we do it right, if we engage with a small dose of vulnerability to start, it triggers a natural response in the other party to want to respond the same way. Jason Hull (27:29) Right. I if we do it... gauge with a small dose Yeah. Well, I have a good example. So I have a client and I thought I was being benevolent. He felt he hadn't really utilized our services for a couple of months or a few months because he was focused on other things. So he was looking to cancel. So I said, hey, why don't we discount your monthly fee down to like a third and to take care of you and make sure you're getting the benefit. And Darryl (27:44) And yeah. Okay. Jason Hull (28:07) I got on a call with him and he hadn't really fulfilled his part of the deal, which was he was gonna work on adding another 25 units in outdoors and I was gonna sponsor him or lower our fee for two to three months. And he came back and he was like, well, I thought you were gonna let me continue this indefinitely until I got 100 doors. And I'm like, but you're not doing any work. So he's frustrated, I'm frustrated and he's wanting to cancel and... Darryl (28:30) Great. Jason Hull (28:35) I want to let him cancel because I feel like he's taking advantage of me and our team's goodwill. But I can see he feels that we'd sort of made some promise, even though we misunderstood it, that we would just help him indefinitely until he got to 100 doors, regardless of whether he's doing the work or not. Darryl (28:51) Right. Yeah, and sometimes being benevolent isn't being nice. Right. Jason Hull (28:52) Yeah, and sometimes you... Hmm. Yeah, yeah, sometimes people what people need is a punch in the face metaphorically. Yeah. Darryl (29:02) Right. Or a kick in the butt. Yeah. So my, my son wanted to get a baseball scholarship and he told me that. And I said, well, to do that, you need to have good grades. You need to work hard. You need to play well. You've got to be a good coach, a good assistant to the coach. Like the coach needs to like you to advocate on your behalf and you've got to be a good teammate. And so I, I said, I'm going to.   Jason Hull (29:08) Hmm. Do that. Yeah. ⁓ on your behalf. And so I said, I'm going to ask you about all these things. so I'm like, are you eating right? you doing your homework? Are going to get good grades? Are you working hard? And so I'm asking him all the things that parents don't ask their kids, except that he perceives it as me having his back, not being on his back. so holding into a count in that moment, similarly, if we've got Darryl (29:29) ask you about all these things. And so I'm like, are you eating right? Are you doing your homework? Cause you gotta get good grades. Are you working hard? And so I'm asking him all the things that parents normally ask their kids, except that he perceives it as me having his back, not being on his back. And so holding him to account in that moment, you know, and similarly, if, if we've got people in our office who want promotions, well, Jason Hull (29:54) in our office who want promotion. Well, that means that you need to show up like that. Darryl (29:58) That means that you need to show up like that new role. Right? I need to be confident that you can handle that role before I give it to you. So that means I need to ask more of you. I need to hold you to a higher standard. Need to push you harder. And if your client says he's going to get 25 doors and he hasn't... Jason Hull (30:03) I need to be confident that you can handle that role before I give it to you. So that means I need to ask more of you. I need to hold you to a higher standard. I to push you harder. And if your client says he's gonna get 25 doors and he hasn't... Darryl (30:23) then the response may well be, want you to be successful, but right now I'm just enabling you to kind of coast. And I may not be the right solution for you at this moment. Jason Hull (30:23) then the response may well be, I want you to be successful, but right now I'm just unable to cut costs. And I may not be the right switch for you at this point. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I don't need his money, so I generally wanna help him grow, but yeah, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, I guess. But you can't the roads, right? Darryl (30:43) Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so if you really want to have his best interests at heart, it starts to become a conversation of what's getting in the way. How do we help pull away some of those barriers that you're experiencing? And if, if we're just part of the noise, then we probably need to stop for awhile. Jason Hull (30:48) I don't know. Yeah, and so if you really want to have these best interests at heart hmm it starts to become a conversation of what's getting Yeah Right is there something else that would help you be more productive and if you Darryl (31:11) Is there something else that would help you be more productive? And if you really had his best interest at heart, you might have other solutions or suggestions that you could offer to him.   Jason Hull (31:17) If you really have his best interest in art, you might have other solutions or suggestions that you can offer him. Yeah. And I have, yeah. He doesn't want to do the sales. So I said, you need to get a salesperson and you need to hire. Yeah. Yeah. So, Well, Darryl, I really appreciate this. This is really interesting. I'd like to stay connected. think, I think your, you know, your message and I would be very interested in reading your book. What's the name of your book if people are looking? Darryl (31:29) Yeah. Yeah. It's called building trust, exceptional leadership in the times of uncertainty. Jason Hull (31:48) That's good for today. Yeah, we're living what a lot are calling the post trust era. Darryl (31:49) Yeah. Trust levels are the lowest we've ever measured. And if you think about the model that I proposed, our vulnerability hasn't really gone down, but our uncertainty is bouncing all over the place. it makes asking people to trust us just a little more hard, a little more difficult than it has been in the past. Jason Hull (32:01) Yeah Yeah, I think one good final question is how do you perceive trust being impacted by AI? Because a lot of people are trying to leverage AI, use AI. They're pretending that it's them that did something and they're using AI. What do you see for the future of trust related to this AI revolution that we're going through right now? I think it's going to be an extreme challenge. think social media has caused problems to start with. Yeah. Darryl (32:29) I think it's going to be an extreme challenge. think social media has caused problems to start with. ⁓ Our relationships tend to be a mile wide and an inch deep now. They're not as resilient as they used to be. Jason, when I grew up, I could be an idiot multiple times in a row and people were stuck with me. And so I learned. Now people have this feeling that if I make one mistake, I'm done. Jason Hull (32:42) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Disposable friendships and relationships. Darryl (32:56) And I'll just find somebody, some other group to hang out with on the internet. we need to be more right and isolated and lonely and talking to AI, like it's a real human being. And so I think we need to be more intentional than we've ever been about building trust. And that's, that's why I do the work I do. Jason Hull (33:00) And then we end up in these echo chambers for sure. Right. And isolated at moment, not in AI, like it's really easy to be. Okay, yeah. And so I think we need to be more intentional than we've ever been to build trust. Yeah, yeah. And that's why I do the work I do. Yes, I think it's more valuable than ever. more valuable than ever, yeah. Darryl (33:21) I try to teach people how to build stronger relationships. Yeah. Jason Hull (33:27) Yeah, and I think it'll become more valuable. I think that our failings and flaws as human will become more valuable because we're imperfect. And I think that humanity is going to be, or just our humanness is gonna be a premium. It's gonna be a premium experience to be able to be with a human. And so I think that relationships will matter even more and trust certainly. Darryl (33:50) Yeah. Jason Hull (33:52) And there's a lot of people that are trying to eliminate the need for trust. It's like forced blockchain stuff and tech and things are defined and there's no way they could steal, or lie. And like we force it so we can eliminate the need for trust. And maybe there's a little progress that can be made that way, but I think for sure trust will be a premium. Yeah, it's, it may eliminate. Darryl (33:58) Yeah. Yeah, it may eliminate our need for trust, it doesn't eliminate the need for us to be able to build trust with others. We still need to engage with other human beings. Jason Hull (34:18) Yeah. Yeah, well said. Well, Darryl, how can people get in touch with you or find out more about what you do? Tell us a little bit about what your offerings are and how they can get in touch. Darryl (34:23) Yeah. Right. So I offer executive coaching, consulting, uh, training and development, uh, workshops, those kinds of things. Uh, the book was written because I don't want what I know to go away if I do. and they can find me on my website at trust unlimited.com. Uh, there's a blog section there with plenty of articles and topics like rebuilding trust with the police or. Jason Hull (34:45) because I don't And they can find me on my website at trustunlimited.com. There's a blog section there with plenty of articles and topics like rebuilding trust with the police or Darryl (35:01) Trust in parenting or trust in leadership. ⁓ I have a podcast called the imperfect cafe. ⁓ Jason Hull (35:02) trusting parenting or trusting leadership. I have a podcast called The Uperca Cafe. Darryl (35:09) and they can reach out to me directly by email at Darryl at trust unlimited.com. Jason Hull (35:09) and they can reach out to me directly by email, darryl.trusthumbln.com. Perfect. Darryl, it's been a pleasure. Appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks for being here. Thanks for the opportunity. Absolutely. All right. So for those of you that enjoyed the show and you maybe have felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, you can reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Darryl (35:22) Thanks for the opportunity, Jason. Jason Hull (35:37) Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

How often do you say, “I don’t have time?” This is a common excuse we hear from property management business owners and their teams. The truth is, we all have the same amount of time. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the myth of not having enough time and the true issue: having the wrong priorities. You’ll Learn [01:28] Time: The Biggest Excuse for Staying Stagnant [06:02] You Don’t Make Money on Bad Clients [10:20] Building Trust with Clients Without Overcommunicating [19:35] Finding the Bottleneck in Your Business Quotables “Don't optimize for the wrong things. You have to make sure you're optimizing for the right things.” “We all have the same amount of time every day.” “The issue is not time. The issue is priorities.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript   Jason Hull (00:00) most of you listening have some properties and some owners in your portfolio that are losing you money. Your operational cost on them is higher than   you being able to pull profit on them.   All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses.   helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners, and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness,   change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so what are we chatting about today? Sarah? Time. Time. Time. Why are we chatting about time?   And this is where most people mess it up because it's so precious here's the little captain's face   It's precious. Okay, Captain for those listening is a little dog that we have. It's one of our dogs. Okay, so the reason we're talking about time is because time is one of the biggest excuses that we get. Are you working and growing your business? I just don't have time. Or have you been making the calls that you need to make to get your business growing? I don't have time. I'm so busy. I'm so overwhelmed. And so it's everybody is out of time.   Nobody has time. Nobody's so busy. There's a meme that it's old, but it's like classic. Ain't nobody got time for that. Ain't nobody got time for that? Yes, you do. So time, time is an issue. Why is time an issue? We all have the same amount of time every day. We get a whole new 24 hours the next day, every day. The issue isn't time. And we've talked about this, think, before, but the issue is not time. The issue is priorities. You're prioritizing the wrong things. And one of the things we've noticed   with clients. We just recently wrote for our clients a time optimization playbook for property managers. It's got some brilliant stuff in it. A lot of it from her brain, some of it from my brain, and it's really good. But one of things we've noticed, Elon Musk has these principles for how he goes and optimizes businesses. He's made businesses way more efficient. When he came into Twitter and rebranded it to X he cleaned house, thousands of   wasteful employees that were just bloat and not really contributing to code, not really updating it. One of his key principles is don't optimize for the wrong things. You have to make sure you're optimizing for the right things. And a lot of people are optimizing when they should have been cutting stuff out first. So they didn't ask the question, should we even be doing this thing at all? And most property managers we find are optimizing for the wrong thing.   They are optimizing for how do I take every phone call from every tenant and how do I take every phone call from every owner and how do I please everybody and do all this stuff that I have to do instead of what?   Instead of saying, should I even be talking to these people at all? Your owners don't really want to talk to you. They really would love if they could just trust you to do your job and do it well and not have to talk to you. Like that's really what owners want. When they feel anxious because they don't trust you because you aren't doing a good job or you've set incorrect boundaries or you haven't made them feel safe from the beginning or you onboarded them poorly, they now feel anxious. They want to talk to you all the time because why?   They now believe they need to manage the manager. They're trying to manage you. How ridiculous is that? They hire you to manage their property and then they manage you to manage the property. They just traded their job for another job instead of offloading it to you. so we need to optimize for the right things. And so we need to start questioning things. And so some of the things we'll have people do is we'll have them audit their time by doing a time study.   And ours is a little bit different. It focuses on identifying the five currencies of time, energy, focus, cash, and effort, which is a framework I got from one of my mentors, Alex Charfen. And so the idea of the time study showcases all of these. It shows all of these. Sarah's, used to say it didn't show cash, but Sarah was like, you should add cash. And so now it has the money piece in it too.   just said.   You're trading your time. Right. And this is thing I to my clients all the time. I say, if your time was worth, let's just call it a low amount like $50 an hour, you just traded $50 an hour for $13 an hour. It was not a good trade. Yeah. Of course it wasn't. Not a good trade at all. were you doing those things? Instead of using $50 an hour time to do $50 or $100 or $1,000 an hour work, you're using $50 an hour time.   to do $13 an hour work, you have to just look at the things that you're doing and place a dollar sign next to them and then kind of compare that with what your pay rate is and what you want your pay rate to be, not just what it currently is. So I just said, just put a dollar sign next to them. And we did. We updated it. So you might be thinking, how do I deal with all my tenants and all my clients? And maybe you should be asking   Should I even have all of these tenants, properties, and clients? After all, a lot of our clients, when they first come to us, are not making money on every property. They're losing money on some of the properties. They're losing money on some of the owners that they're dealing with. If you actually ran a P &L, a profit and loss statement on every individual owner, every individual unit that you manage, some of them in your business are losing you money. Would you manage for free? Would you do it for free?   People came to you, hey, could you do this? You won't make any money, but I'd like you to manage this anyway. I'll pay you nothing. You would probably say no to that, right? If they came to you and said, hey, I would like you to manage this and you will actually lose money, but it benefits me. Would you do it? You're like, Jason, that's stupid. But right now, most of you listening have some properties and some owners in your portfolio that are losing you money. Your operational cost on them is higher than   you being able to pull profit on them. And so it's the 80-20 principle. 20 % of your properties and 20 % of your owners probably cost you 80 % of your operational costs, right? They're eating it up. So one of the principles we share recently, we've been sharing at some of our Jumpstart sessions because we onboard clients in person. We have them come out to our Jumpstart sessions is this idea of, well, do you remember?   The Hamburglar. Do remember the Hamburglar? The sneaky, shady guy with the bands and over his like this little thing around his eyes and he's sneaking around stealing burgers, right? Well, there is a burglar sneaking around your business and you can't even see him. He's invisible. And he is the interruption burglar. He's just sneaking around stealing money and time throughout your business all day long.   the interruption burglar. One interruption costs between, depending on the studies, you look at 18 minutes to maybe up to 26 minutes of productivity and your team members and you are getting interrupted constantly throughout the day. And then they have to like reset their mind, get back into the flow, get back to what they were doing. But if they're just dealing with interruptions all day long, you are losing probably half the amount of labor that you should be getting.   This is why Sarah was able to run her business so efficiently when she was a property manager and why some of her clients have just as many doors as her, but they have a whole team. A huge team. Yeah. They have a whole bunch of people. Between me and my assistant. And they're not making much money. I didn't even have one full-time equivalent. And you were working maybe 20 hours a week. You had 60 to 90 % profit margin. And these were C-class difficult properties, right?   But Sarah optimizes. She optimizes for the right things. I hate wasting my time. Yeah, she values her time. biggest pet peeve out of everything in the world is wasting my time. So Sarah values her time. One thing Sarah did not give out, Sarah did not give out this magical check that all of you tend to give out to all of your clients and your tenants.   This is this big, giant, glowing golden check that says, steal all of my profits, call me anytime. And you give this to tenants, every tenant and owner, you give them this blank check to steal all of your profitability. I had a client come to me once with 600 units and he was making zero dollars in his business. How is that possible? That's exactly what I asked him. said, there's a previous podcast episode, you can check it out.   It's with Preston Brown. I think he was out in New Mexico and he had 250 units that probably they shouldn't been in his portfolio out of the 600. He fired them. It's almost half. Then he fired half of his staff. Now you think, oh, maybe his workload, his got kind of half. No, it went down dramatically like 80-20 rule. Like he had way more profitability available. He was making a lot of money then. He had a healthy business. So   It's not just about doors. It's about profit. It's about optimizing for the right things. There's no point going and getting more doors if your pricing is terrible, if your time is messy, if you don't have priorities set correctly. Okay, so what else do we run into with clients with time that we'd like to share here with the audience? I think the biggest thing that they tell themselves is just, I'm so busy.   Yeah.   piece of the business they're focused in, they always just say, my God, like I'm just so busy and I can never get everything done. That seems to be the thing that we hear again and again and again. I mean, we even had, he's a former client, but he had asked me several times. We were actually helping him implement his daily huddles after he hired a new team because he completed an acquisition. And he said, okay, what we're gonna track on the daily huddles.   He wanted a 98 or 97 % call answer rate. Optimizing for the wrong things. And I went, okay, I won't say his name, but I said, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. And he's like, no, it's really important that we answer the phone every time that it rings or almost every time that it rings. Because if we don't answer the phone, then people won't trust us because they can't get ahold of us. And then that shatters everything that I'm trying to do and everything that I'm trying to build.   And I think the big misconception is that those two things go hand in hand. For people to trust me, I must always be available. For people to trust me, I must be at their beck and call. For people to trust me, I must get back to them immediately. Okay, well some are freaking out right now. Some are going, I don't believe what Sarah's saying. Because the number one reason in most studies why people supposedly, why they leave property management companies is   a lack of communication or poor communication. Correct. But I think that's a red herring. You can over communicate, and we've had clients do this too. So you can over communicate. You can tell your clients every little single thing that you are doing in whichever method or manner you feel like is appropriate. So you can call them, you can text them, you can send them emails, you can have your system automatically send them notifications.   You can do whatever, but you can tell them, we did this today, and we did that today, and we did this many showings, and we got this many leads, and we're working on this many applications, and this 10 a call, and we did this, and this, this, this, this, this. Can we agree that that is excellent communication? Sure. Do you think that doing that though makes somebody more likely to trust you? I would argue that it doesn't. I would argue that it makes them   less likely to trust you. And the reason is because you're inviting them to babysit you. You're inviting them to be a watchdog. You're inviting them to question you and want to micromanage and monitor. And go, ⁓ what is Jason doing today? What did Jason do on my property today? How many of my tenants did Jason talk to you today?   ⁓ What about how many showings did Jason do today and then if all of a sudden? Well, why wasn't there a showing at my property today Jason? I don't understand now. It seems like he's not doing anything, right? So you're you're training people the wrong way by over Communicating with them and you are teaching them to not trust you because they are inherently Question you   So I love this because the idea in these surveys and a lot of people at NARPM and people in property management have said, communication is key. We answer the phone, which is cool. Answer the phone. You still don't need to optimize for reducing the phone calls. How do we eliminate as many as possible? And so I think it's a red herring. I think it's a false idea that communication is the number one reason because there's something that comes before communication.   and that is you set bad expectations, you set poor boundaries, that leads to anxiety in the tenants and the owners, and then communication becomes this crazy thing that they need more of instead of being able to trust you. The lack of trust is the real problem. It's not communication. There's plenty of investors out there that have good property managers that do not want to talk to them ever.   I just had Dustin Heiner on a previous episode of our podcast. Very savvy investor. Every investor listening to this should probably listen to that guy, a really good friend of ours. He goes and finds a property manager first before he finds a property and he says, I will even pay them a little bit more if I have to because I don't want to ever have to talk to them. I don't want to have to deal with the property. I want to be able to trust them to do job so I can just live my life. He wants it to be passive. He's a good investor.   You're creating bad investors and you're making them anxious by not setting healthy boundaries and setting expectations and making sure that they can trust you. And so they trust you less and less over time because they're anxious. And then what happens? Then they have to and call more and more and they have to babysit more and more. And then they have to watch over your shoulder and then they want more reports and then they want more communication. then it's this constant. And then you have to hire more people. Now they need more.   And now that they've had more, now that they're more anxious and they trust you even less, now they want more of that. And you're just getting in this cycle that's eventually going to be the death of you and your team and perhaps your entire business. It gets worse because yeah, you have to build out this whole team of people you don't even need. You hire a bunch of extra people and these people are not, like if you're hiring that many people, you can't afford to pay them all super well. So you're not getting the most amazing people.   And these are the frontline people that are dealing with your tenants and owners. And then they're frustrated with them because they don't have all the answers and they don't sound confident and competent. And so then they want to talk to you. And so you're getting escalations constantly. And so now you're having to talk with them even more to calm down the anxiety because Susie at the front desk had no clue what they were talking about. And then all of a sudden you have this whole team that's not capable of running the business without you.   So now everything is still coming to you, but you're paying everybody to do things and it doesn't matter because they do things, they fail, people aren't satisfied and they still go, yeah, but I'm still putting out all the fires all day. You're right, you are. And that's because of how you are training people. And you know you have the wrong team if one of your key questions is, why won't my team just think for themselves? If you constantly are asking that question, why won't they just think for themselves? It's because you.   have bad leadership. You've set it up incorrectly and you have not created the right team. You've built the wrong team around the wrong person. You're showing up as the wrong person. You're over involved and you have not been able to create, but you created the wrong environment. And that started with picking, know, setting up the game incorrectly with tenants and owners and not setting good boundaries and not setting good expectations. And it doesn't even mean that you have bad clients. No. It doesn't mean you have bad clients. You're making them bad.   bad properties, doesn't even mean that you have bad tenants, it just means that you're training them to treat you that way. And you're allowing them to treat you that way. And then you're wondering why it's so hard to manage them and why everyone goes, Sarah, how is it possible that you ran 260 units and you were part time? I just don't understand how it's possible. And most people wouldn't understand how it's possible because they're making so many mistakes.   with their time and throughout their entire day, that almost the entire day, I would be willing to bet that about 80 % or more of the average property manager's day is bullshit. Yeah. Complete bullshit. So that's why when you're spending most of your day doing stupid things, yeah, no wonder why I can outwork you. And it's not even hard to do. It's just hard when you're trying to do everything.   And it's hard when you're not training your team, your clients, your tenants. They're all like puppies. You just, have to train all of them. If you want a dog that's going to go to the bathroom outside, you've got to train it. If you want an owner that's going to trust you and not question you and not consistently bother you and wonder what's happening on my property today, you've got to train them to do that.   And some of them may have come to you with those intentions. And then because of how your system is set up, you broke that. And now they're just used to, okay, well, they're gonna tell me every day or every once a week. Now I'm gonna get on a phone call once a week. Here's our weekly call. Here's my weekly email. Yeah. There's several other things related at a time. One that I'll...   related to what Sarah's talking about is if your goals are too low, like your goal right now is a shitty goal, like your goal is survival, or how do I just deal with all this time? That's an awful goal. That goal yields really terrible results. That's not a goal that's going to get you to think differently. It's not a goal that's going to get you to innovate or find a better path or to be able to grow and scale dramatically faster. That's a really low level goal. And so it doesn't raise the floor high enough. And so you're dealing with all this low level garbage in your business.   And that relates to priorities. Time is not, everybody has the same amount of time. It's not about time. It's about prioritization, as we mentioned at the beginning. And so you are intentionally filling your, uses a golf ball analogy. Do you want to share that? No. No. Okay. Well, I'll just, but basically you're filling up, you're filling up your day with all of the riff raff and the little stuff instead of prioritizing the main thing. And so I'll share this.   You need to figure out what your biggest bottleneck is. Anything other than that, there's only one bottleneck in your business. There's always one. It's one at a time. That's your biggest constraint is the bottleneck. And you have to always focus on what is the bottleneck that I need to be dealing with right now. I recently heard Alex Hermosy talk about this and there's lots of different leaks and lots of different constraints in the business, but   You need to figure out where is the biggest bottleneck. That's the priority. You need to prioritize the right things. Right now you're prioritizing the wrong things. Go back, find a previous episode where I talk about the six core functions of business. That will help reveal to you which of those six is the priority. And then you can figure out where's the bottleneck inside of that area of the business, that constraint. These are like six children you need to feed and take care of. And I guarantee you've got your fat healthy favorite. You keep shoving.   food down its throat, and then you've got the other kids that are starving, emaciated, sitting in the corner that you're neglecting. And that means you're not prioritizing the right thing in the business. You're being a bad steward over your own business. And so you've got to make intelligent decisions based on where's the constraint, where's the bottleneck. And that's how you should prioritize your time. And the rest has to fit elsewhere. And you need to set boundaries for your own time because you're not productive.   as often as you're working if you're working a ridiculous amount of hours. Some of your hours are probably a tenth as productive as some of your early morning hours where you're sharp and you're working on things effectively. And so it's not about more time. It's about prioritizing and it's about being more productive and more effective. Some say working smarter instead of harder. And so if you would like to do that, reach out to Sudorgo. We can help you with that.   little bit more about bottlenecks and speaking of bottlenecks, a lot of property managers they end up telling us that maintenance is probably I would say arguably the biggest bottleneck in their entire business because everyone seems to struggle with maintenance and unfortunately it is part of being property manager but it's definitely the most time-consuming yeah   What if you could cut that workload by up to 85 % and even some of our clients have gotten up to 95 % automation for their maintenance coordination? that's exactly what Vendoroo has achieved because they've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all of your maintenance tasks. That's right.   From initiating work orders and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting, the AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee. It learns your preferences and executes tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and not quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining your operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well-deserved break because we all need one of those.   Over half the room at last year's DoorGrow Live conference signed up with Vendoroo right then and there. One year later, they're not just satisfied. They're raving about how Vendoroo has transformed their business. Don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with Vendoroo. You can visit vendero.ai slash door grow. That's vendero.ai slash door grow today to make this the last maintenance hire that you're ever going to need. All right.   There's the word from the sponsor. Okay, so yeah, there's a lot of different time hacks that we could get into. You know, we help coach clients on this all the time. It's always this constant excuse, oh, I don't have time to work on growing my business. If your business isn't growing, it's dying. And if you're just burning yourself out on the hamster wheel, thinking you're making progress, but you're not, and there's no focus on growth, that's a really   stressful drain. That's a really terrible goal. That's a survival goal. We've got to get you dreaming bigger. We've got to get you seeing bigger. We've got to get you prioritizing better. We've got to get you eliminating a lot of stuff that you're prioritizing and that you're optimizing for that doesn't even need to exist. There's a lot of work in your business right now that doesn't even need to exist. It's just being created because of bad boundaries and bad set up.   If you'd like some help with this, reach out to us at DoorGrow. Anything else you want to add about time? I would say time is not something that you feel like you have a plethora of as a property manager. Then that tells me there are some shifts that you can make, relatively simple shifts that you can make in your business. I will admit I was bored as a property manager. Yeah. Running.   260 C-class properties, I was part-time. I was bored. That's why I'm here at DoorGrow That's how I convinced her. I was like, you got some time? Come help us optimize things Most property managers don't say that they're bored throughout the day and don't go, geez, what am I going to do for the next eight hours? I have no idea what to do. If you would like to figure out how you can run your business in only a few hours a week, that's definitely something I can help you with and it's super fun for me.   I like helping people optimize their time because I know that I can make you a lot more money. And that's exciting for me. I like making people more money. So if that's something that you're struggling with, and if you feel like, hey, I would really love to learn how I can be a part-time property manager, making a lot of money and not pulling my hair out, not hitting my life, then contact us. We can chat with you.   our sales team would be very happy to answer any questions that you might have. this is one of the biggest things that we can do for you here at DoorGrow is clean up your time and then you get to use that time to make more money, yeah. To make more money. Perfect. So if you feel stuck, stagnant, you want to take things to the next level, visit us at doorgrow.com. Also join our free Facebook community. You can get to that by going to doorgrowclub.com.   We only let in business owners and property management companies. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com/subscribe And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. It helps us out until next time. Remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.  

If you’ve ever worried that changing your pricing structure or raising your fees would scare away your property management clients, you are likely not making enough money for the work you and your team are doing. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull dive into the psychology and strategy behind the innovative 3-tier hybrid pricing model.  You’ll Learn [01:08] Addressing the Common Fears of Changing Pricing [09:10] Creating 3 Pricing Tiers Based on Psychology [16:58] Shifting Your Mindset Surrounding Money [21:12] Distinguishing Your 3 Pricing Plans Quotables “Unless you want to be the cheapest and deliver the most cutthroat, like awful service, and just target the cheapest owners, which have the highest operational cost and the lowest margins, and just hemorrhage money and not be able to grow your business, that's the game you can play.” “That psychological impact of investing in yourself financially, doing something to financially invest in leveling up you and your business creates this unconscious perception that… you are worth being invested in.” “If you have good pricing, you have a really optimized pricing model, and you know how to sell it, it actually changes your portfolio. It incentivizes you having better properties.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) What would happen   if you doubled your pricing and half of your clients quit. well, then nothing would happen. Nothing would change. then I say, what would happen to your operational costs?   All right, we are coming to you from Mexico. We are Jason Hull and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses.   helping them at doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win.   Now let's get into the show. All right. So we're going to be chatting about what today? Pricing. A little bit about pricing. we have coached and consulted property managers on pricing for a long time, like over a decade. And we've brought some innovative strategies. Like we were first to bring to market really and push   into the industry the three tier sort of pricing model having three plans. And this was based on the psychology that there's three types of buyers, cheapos, normals and premiums. You know who they are, right? You've dealt with them. And so, and then more recently in our evolution, we've been pushing a hybrid model. I got that idea originally from Scott Brady. Shout out to Scott, smart guy. And we innovated on that and developed   our own model for clients to make that really effective. And so this is something that we've coached quite a few people on. we consistently see some challenges come up over switching their pricing. first, what are some of the fears or concerns that come up, About switching pricing? Yeah. Everyone's always worried, oh my god, what if I lose all of my clients? Right. I'm going to change my pricing, and everyone's going to leave me. And we've helped a lot do that.   they lost all their clients. No, it never happens. It never happens. No, if they lose any, it's typically their worst clients. And then they end up finding that that was a blessing. Yeah. So they end up making money by getting rid of those and they're charging more money. So really they're increasing their revenue. So a lot of times to get them over that hurdle, I usually use this example. I say, What would happen   if you doubled your pricing and half of your clients quit. Like we did something crazy and extreme. So we go to the extreme. And what do people usually say at first? well, then nothing would happen. Nothing would change. I'm like, really? So then I have to ask deeper questions. So what do mean nothing would happen? Well, I'd still bring in the same amount of revenue. I've doubled my price, half the clients quit. I still have the same revenue. And then I say, what would happen to your operational costs? So they start thinking.   So you probably already figuring this out right now, listening to this. So what would happen to your operational costs? They'll say, it'd be cut in half. I'm like, would it? If you lost all of your worst properties and worst owners, like the most difficult, what would happen to your operational costs? It would probably be a fraction, because this is the 80-20 rule, right? 20 % of the properties, 20 % of your owners are eating up 80 % of your team and staff's attention. And so it might be a lot greater than that.   And so what would happen then to your profit margin? then they start to figure this out, right? And they say, look, we're not gonna do something that extreme. We're not gonna go that extreme. But if we raise your revenue a bit and we decrease your operational cost a bit without changing anything else, even if you lose some clients, you're going to have more profit. That's what actually matters. So that's one of the first initial things. It's just a mindset thing. And some are really afraid, like my owners won't.   They won't go for it. Like, I can't do it. No, I can't change the price and then they'll all leave. And that, I've noticed, it's very scarcity mindset. Right? Your owners aren't with you because you charged the least amount of money, hopefully. And if that's why you have clients is because you're the cheapest one, then that tells me that you have a lot of the cheap clients and you have a lot of clients that don't actually value you or your team.   or your services or anything that you do. And that feels like a really impossible game to win. Because then to win the game, all you have to do is just be the cheapest one. So there's another company that comes along and says, you know what? I'm going to be even cheaper. Well, what's going to happen? You'll lose almost all of your clients then. If it's only about the money, you'll lose almost all of your clients. And the only way to win that is what? A race to the bottom. That is nowhere to be in business.   And so some of the other challenges we deal with when helping our clients figure out their pricing, you know, we give them everything. We're like, here is how to do this weird hybrid model. Here are the things to include in your three plans. Here is a spreadsheet to figure out and compare to your competitors pricing to make sure you're in the realm of reality. We give them all the stuff and then they'll come back to us sometimes with what? A mess. Yeah.   It's like they don't and we have a training we have a training called pricing secrets where we explain all this and the principles that you need to make sure you're aligned with to make sure it's effective and then we'll get this really overly complex complicated messy model where they've got every fee is a different dollar amount for each of the three plans and so somebody looking at this would be like this one is a percentage and that one is a dollar amount and that one's back to a percentage and that one's so then in order for someone to   look at that and go, well, what would this actually cost me? It is now this very complex math formula that the further you go down your pricing sheet, the more math you have to do. You have to go, okay, well, this percent of that number, but now plus this flat fee and now, it's another percent of a different number. And then it's going to take you minutes to try to calculate what is my actual cost on this one plan? And then you have to do that three times because you have three different plans.   then it's so complex that it's hard to understand, it's hard to explain, and it's definitely going to be hard for people to sell, which means it's going to have a really low adoption rate. And then it's going to be something, well, that didn't work. It didn't work because it was too complex. So we need to find the balance. I don't want it to be so simple that it's just, you know, we charge 8%. But I don't want it to be so complex that   Someone just easily by looking at it can't go, okay, I have a pretty good gist of how much this is actually going to run. Yeah. We have an advantage too, because you know, there's concerns. There's concerns. Like everybody's like, well, we can't talk about pricing because of the antitrust stuff and NARPM rules and all this kind of stuff and it's collusion. So what's cool is I'm not a property manager. I'm not anymore. You're not a property manager.   We can talk about pricing with anybody. And so when we're coaching our clients, we can talk about their pricing. We're not colluding. And so we have that advantage that we can coach and help. that not just that, but we have a pretty good idea of what pricing, because the hundreds, the thousands of property managers that we've talked to over the last decade and a half, we have a perspective. Like I can pretty much know based on...   market or when you tell me the average rent, like where pricing should be, what is normal, what other companies are probably charging that market. We still tell our clients to do some competitive research and analysis to figure out what their competitors are charging. Cause that helps them feel more comfortable with pricing. And one of the key things I've noticed is they'll pay attention to, I mean, there's really only two types of pricing that really matter in each market. It's the most expensive company.   and the cheapest. The middle's the fuzzy gray area where it doesn't matter. Your pricing isn't really the issue where you're not really competing effectively on price. But if you're the most expensive, people trust and expect and believe that you're the best, which is a great place to compete and be. If you are the cheapest, then that's a hard game to play. And so we're usually coaching our clients, don't play the game of trying to be   the cheapest company in your market. That's not a fun place to be business-wise. And it's really difficult to deliver great service. And so unless you want to be the cheapest and deliver the most cutthroat, like awful service, and just target the cheapest owners, which have the highest operational cost and the lowest margins, and just hemorrhage money and not be able to grow your business, that's the game you can play, but that's not the game we coach our clients on playing.   So we teach them how to be perceived as the best in their market, and how to compete as the best in their market. And pricing is one of those psychological indicators that buyers look at to figure out, they going to be good? Are they better than the other guys? Are they the best? And so there's a lot of psychology that goes into pricing, which is how we kind of deal with it. Any other issues we should touch on that we notice with clients with pricing? So you.   In short, what Sarah was talking about is we need to make sure the pricing is easy for them to make a distinction between the three plan options, if you have the three plans, and it's not overly complicated so that they don't have to do a bunch of math to figure out which plan should I choose and which one's going to be best. And it's obvious. it's not going to be based. The thing I've noticed lately though is a lot of clients, when they get into the pricing, they mistakenly think the three plans are based on   It's based on money and it's not psychologically the premium buyers don't care as much about money the cheapos do and so the plans are not based on money and so if they what they're trying to make different in each of the three plans is dollar amounts so like if you spend more on our plan you get discounts on all these individual fees and that is that the most premium clients that are premium buyers don't care about discounts they're not worried about the money and so I know when a property manager is presenting pricing like this   they're a cheapo. They're in that category. They're viewing everything through the lens of money instead of being taken care of a premium service or status or what premium buyers look for. And so that's the other blind spot or challenge we've noticed in pricing is that in order for us to coach clients effectively, often we have to figure out which of the three types of buyers they are and what their inherent blind spot is and get them and if they're a cheapo, which is why they have cheap pricing and they're not getting   enough and they're not being taken care of well enough by their business, we have to get them to change their mindset and get them to stretch and stop asking for discounts and coupon codes and get them to be somebody that is willing to spend full price so they expect others to be willing to pay for a service full price. And that's a bigger challenge. Yes. So essentially what we get to do is figure out where they're at so that we can help kind of coach them on the opposite. Because it's hard for   a cheapo buyer to understand the premium buyer because they're just not in that mindset. the opposite is true. The premium buyers, they don't understand the cheapo buyers at all. Like, don't understand why you can't just pay, why are you so worried about $10? I don't understand why that's an issue. I mean, you spend $10 and you shouldn't have to think about it. I don't know why that's an issue. usually where the meat in the middle is kind of that middle plan.   So I think a lot of people get their middle plan dialed in really well, and then they struggle with their opposite. And that's, think, sometimes why they get a little bit stuck on their pricing. Because they're either trying to do too much with it, they're making everything really complex, they're not really understanding the opposite type of buyer that they are.   That's okay, don't fully have to understand that when you have your coaches to lean back on. The question we get most of the time, what do I put my premium plan? What am I supposed to do in a premium plan? I don't know. Should I do this? Should I discount? Should I add this? What would I put in the premium plan? And that tells me that if that's where they're struggling, it just means that they haven't...   really adopted that psychology of premium buyer yet. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're cheapo. I think it just means that they're perhaps in the normal category. Because same thing, if you're a normal buyer, it's going to be hard for you to understand the premium, and then it will probably also be hard for you to understand cheapo. So I usually compare it. This is, I think, an analogy people can kind of understand, is when you go to book a flight.   So right now we're in Mexico. If we go, hey, instead of going back to Austin, let's go to California and visit Jason's family. Okay. Well then we need a flight from Mexico to California. How would we do that? We would go and book, right? But when you book, there's different ways to book a flight. You can just go right to the airline. You can go on Google flights, or you can go like, what are those, know, kayak and the discount prices. So.   Maybe you're thinking, okay, I'll get a last minute ticket and we won't get to sit together, but it's okay. They could throw me. How many times have you heard people say this? they could throw me in the baggage compartment. I   Right? Because they're like, I am just trying to pay the least amount of money and still get the thing that I'm looking for. So the cheaper buyers like that, they're like, hey, I want the discount code. I'll do the red eye overnight. I'll do the early morning. I don't care if I have to wake up at 2 AM for like a 430 flight. I'm OK with that. I'll sit way in the back. We don't need to sit together. I'll pay for my baggage as extra. I just won't pack baggage. It's OK.   Like I'll shove everything in a carry-on. That's one way to book it. Or the other way to book it is, I'm just gonna go and do the search and then whatever looks like a decent option for a decent price, I'll book that. Or the other option is, I want to make sure that this is the most convenient and easy thing for me. So if there are multiple flights at different times,   Sometimes the early flights might be a little bit less expensive than a flight midday So someone might go yeah, the midday flight is more expensive However, the midday flight means I don't need to be up at 2 in the morning 3 in the morning 4 in the morning and I would rather pay more money so that I don't need to be up at 4 a.m. That's a trade-off   I would rather buy the first class seat because then I know for sure I'm going to be in first class. I'll get the premium snacks or I'll get a meal. I might get a hot towel. I will be more taken care of. I know that I will have more room. I'll get to board first. I'll get to get off first. And they know that they're taken care of. And they're OK to spend more money because they know that they will be taken care of. So depending on what psychology you have, that will probably be.   how you decide to make many, if not all, of your purchasing decisions. Yeah, so I think our advantage, you know, some people have grown up as a premium buyer. They grew up in a premium sort of silver spoon in their mouth environment. That's not me. It's not you. Not me either. Right? Some people have grown up in a really, really cheapo environment, right? And...   And so the challenge is that kind of creates this inherent blind spot. The advantage I feel that you and I have as coaches is one, we've been in the cheap environment. I remember my mom like packing cans of food when we would take a vacation because, and cereal, because she wanted to make sure we had, you know, supplies and food to eat rather than going, doing expensive stuff, right? Which is just funny to think about, right? Now.   Me and my brothers, joke about this. So I think the advantage is we've been all three and we now are, you know, we're hanging out in Mexico, we're having a very premium sort of buyer experience and I don't even think about what things cost. I don't think about the money, I just think about what experience I want to have and so, you know, there's been that shift. But I can empathize and connect and go back to understanding how a cheapo thinks or how in more normal.   buy our things. But in general, my default is I'm not really thinking about the expensive things. I'm thinking about what am I going to get and how is it going to help? Because there's a lot of things we do that make us a lot more money than they cost, even though they're very expensive. And so one of the things that helped me to do that, and I don't know about you, but one of the things that's really helped me shift my mindset was getting high ticket coaches. It's getting coaches that could help me.   I was investing and spending of what I felt like was a lot of money. And we're not cheap at DoorGro, right? We're, some would say very expensive, but I was spending money and then I was getting a return. I was getting a return on that investment with coaches and that psychological impact of investing in yourself financially, doing something to financially invest in leveling up you and your business creates this unconscious perception that   you are worth being people spending money on. You are worth being invested in. And it's difficult to go to your clients and try to convince them and make, you feel like they, want them to give you money and invest in you when you won't even invest in yourself. This is a big deal. And so if this is one of the things that not only can we help you with the, the, some of the money mindset, but just by investing or joining a program like Door Grows Mastermind, that's going to...   be a strong signal to you that you have invested in yourself and it puts a little pressure on you that you now need to perform and get a return from this. You've got to take action. And the bigger piece is though is we give you clarity because if you don't have clarity and that's what coaches do they give you clarity which shortens the path to get to the result. Otherwise you're experimenting, you're testing out growth strategies, you're trying different things, you're wasting time, you're wasting money, you're wasting energy.   You're wasting all your different currencies, time, energy, focus, cash, and effort. And so if we can help you collapse time on that, you get to an ROI faster. You get money faster. And it's very easy to offset thousands of dollars a month even in property management. It's very easy. That could be 10 new doors, 20 new doors. And we have some clients doing that on a monthly basis. They're adding doors once they get their engines installed and work with us on growth.   And so it's very easy for us to offset the cost of our program, which is why we're one of the few programs or coaches or vendors in the property management space that doesn't have an annual contract or an annual term or an annual agreement. We're month among. We earn our place. We don't need to get people to sign on the dotted line that they're committed to us for a year and force them to stay with us. Clients stay with us for years.   because we get them an ROI, we make them more money. It's like it's a no brainer and that's what good investments should be. They should give you an ROI. So if you wanna level up your mindset, level up your pricing, make more money, make it easier to work in your business, then reach out to DoorGrow. We can help you out. So I'd like to mention our sponsor for this episode. Speaking of making things easier and better.   So let me tell you a little bit about Blanket. Very cool, very cool client retention platform. So Blanket is a property retention and growth platform that helps property managers stop losing doors. It's not just about what you bring in, it's about what you also keep. So decreasing churn. Add more revenue and increase the number of properties they manage. Wow your clients with a branded investor dashboard.   and an off-market marketplace while your team gets all the tools they need to identify owners at risk of churning. They're thinking about leaving you. It has indicators and powerful systems to help you add more doors. This is something we want all of our clients to use. I think it's a brilliant system and platform. I've hung out with Lior, the CEO, a blanket, really great guy. I believe in their product. think it is something that we're always focused on the front end. We're focused on growth.   but a lot of times we don't focus on the retention, the backend, and even if a client sells a property, Blanket will help you keep that property in your portfolio and get another one of your owners to own that property. That's how it's really a brilliant system, so check it out. Okay, so back to talking about pricing. Any other things we should touch on before wrapping up about pricing that we've been noticing with clients? I think those are the two that stick out to me the most.   And you touched on it, we didn't go too deep into it, was the second one was there's just not enough of a distinguishing factor between two plans or sometimes between all three. Sometimes you look at pricing and you go, so what's the big difference between the lowest plan and the highest plan? And it might be like $50 difference or like a $100 difference. And then you go, okay, why would somebody...   pay $100 less over here to pay the higher percentage. It doesn't make enough sense. So there's not big enough of a difference. Yeah, that's a good point. You brought that up earlier, but we didn't really. Yeah, there needs to be a really strong distinguishing contrast between your cheapest plan, your middle plan, and your premium plan. It needs to be obvious to the, if a cheapo looks at these three, they're like, I want this plan. If a normal,   buyer, which is the majority of the marketplace, like 61 % study say, but maybe two thirds like an in property management, probably even more because the cheapest cheapos self-managed, they don't even will, they won't even work with you. So it's skewed more towards the premium side. And so they, the pre the normal buyers would go towards the middle and then the premium buyers would go towards the premium option. It would be obvious to them. They're like, I want all of this peace of mind. I want all this. And the cheapos are like, I want the cheapest price.   And then you've got in the middle, and we call that the Goldilocks principle. And we have some other principles like the bandwagon principle and some other principles that we teach related to pricing. So you can really understand this and you know how to sell it. That's the other big piece is you got to know how to sell the pricing effectively. And if you have good pricing, you have a really optimized pricing model and you know how to sell it, it actually changes your portfolio. It incentivizes you having better properties.   better owners and less work over the really high operational costs, difficult owners. So it gets you out of what we've talked about many times, the cycle of suck. Where you take on crappy owners, you've got then crappy properties to deal with, which leads to crappy upset, frustrated tenants, which leads to crappy reviews and reputation, which sums up the whole industry. And if you have a crappy reputation and reviews, then you attract more crappy clients and the cycle continues. So this gets you out of the cycle of suck.   and it gets you into a trajectory of having a lot more space, a lot more margin, a lot more ease in your business. And, you know, I'll throw this out there as well. If you have the right growth strategies, you attract less of the cheapos because the wrong growth strategies, internet based, digital marketing based growth strategies leads to the cheapest owners. Those are the people searching on the internet. The best owners are captured earlier in the sales cycle. So reach out to us. We would love to help you with that. All right. So.   In wrapping up if you have ever felt stuck or stagnant or you want to take your property management business to the next level reach out to us at door grow calm also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners not team members at door grow club calm and if you found this even a little bit helpful don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review we really appreciate it and If you go to door grow calm slash subscribe You can join our newsletter and our emailing list. We would love to have you   join us and get tips, tricks, updates on our product services and offers and the stuff that we can do to help you. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

Seth Williams (00:00) I was able to buy a lot of land at dirt cheap prices. So there's no mortgages or anything on it. And when you buy anything for a small fraction of its actual market value, it's not hard to turn around and sell that thing and make money on it. Jason Hull (00:14) All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of property management businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit. simplify operations and build and replace entire teams, we are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. And my guest today I'm hanging out with is Seth Williams. Welcome, Seth. Seth Williams (01:28) Hey, Jason, good to be here. Thanks for having me. Jason Hull (01:31) Yeah, it's great to have you and of REtipster. so Seth, let's get into a little bit of your background. You've done a lot of different things connected to real estate. Give us the background on your journey and how you got it kind of got into entrepreneurism and what made you start all this crazy stuff. Seth Williams (01:48) Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, my journey kind of starts back in about 2005, 2006 when I was still in college. And like most people, I was trying to find houses I could buy that I could flip or rent that kind of thing. Just get into the real estate game. But I didn't really know anything about how to do it. I had no competitive advantage. I was looking on the MLS. That was the only place I knew I could look for to find deals. And there weren't any deals. It was horrible. I spent hundreds of hours and found nothing that made any financial sense. And I was just like, man, how do people do this? Like, how do people find good real estate deals if I can't find them? I was looking everywhere and there was nothing out there. And it was around, you know, after struggling with this for a couple of years, I discovered two things that kind of worked hand in hand. The first was the land business. So buying vacant land and Like most people, when I first heard that I was like, what? Picket land? Like, why would I do that? That makes no sense. It's just dirt. Like, where's the cash flow? Where's the income? The other thing that I discovered though was how to find deals off market through something called the delinquent tax list. And this is basically a list of property owners that every county has of properties that are currently back due on their property taxes. This is not the same thing. Jason Hull (02:52) Yeah. Seth Williams (03:11) as the tax sale list. So it's not the list of properties that's going to go up for auction soon. It's people who still own their property, but they're back doing taxes. If they don't pay them off soon, they're going to get their property taken from them. And these two things together, land and the delinquent tax list, I was able to find and contact people who had land with delinquent taxes on it. And because there were delinquent taxes, they're in a situation where it's like, Jason Hull (03:18) Yeah, they're just behind. Seth Williams (03:37) You got to pay off these taxes in like weeks or you're going to lose everything. So why are you in this situation? Is it because you don't care about the property? Like what is the issue? And in many cases, that was it. Maybe they just inherited it. Maybe they bought it 20 years ago, but for whatever reason, they didn't care about the thing. And I'm sitting there saying, Hey, I'll pay you a few hundred dollars, maybe a few thousand dollars, and I'll pay off your taxes and I'll make this problem go away. And because a lot of these people didn't want their property anyway, and I was kind of taking care of a nuisance in their life, I was able to buy a lot of land at dirt cheap prices. And I could also buy it free and clear. So there's no mortgages or anything on it. And when you buy anything for a small fraction of its actual market value, it's not hard to turn around and sell that thing and make money on it. So that was the business I got into. And it's been awesome. It's changed a lot over the years, but It's just been a really great way to, you know, without needing a whole lot of cash, finding properties, getting them for a very cheap price, and then making money without having to change anything on the property. Jason Hull (04:45) Yeah, got it. Okay, cool. Is that still the go-to strategy? Delinquent tax lists. Seth Williams (04:52) So, it's definitely still effective, but the drawback of the delinquent tax list is that they're kind of a pain to get, and then even when you do get them, they're kind of a mess to sort through. So, if you're willing to go through the nuisance of getting the list and sorting through it, there's a ton of value on that. But there's another way that's actually easier through a data service that I use called the LAN portal. And it's basically just a much more streamlined Jason Hull (05:04) Yeah. Yeah. Seth Williams (05:20) seamless, organized way to get lists of landowners. They don't necessarily have delinquent taxes, but I can find specifically the types of properties I want and then either send the mail or a cold column, that kind of thing. So both ways work. They both have pros and cons. The delinquent tax list is more of an annoying way to do it, but it's probably the more effective way. The land portal is a lot easier, but you get a little bit less motivation on that list because people don't have this delinquent tax problem. Jason Hull (05:48) Yeah, less of a mess to clean up, but probably a little quicker. so cool. you're going to unpack today the secrets of building wealth through land investing. This is like your number one specialty. And we'll chat a little bit about self storage. And I'm sure there's some property managers that are listening that might be like, haven't done that yet. Like I have not gotten into. That sort of investment and most of the property managers listening you if you're on a property management business your number one goal Should not be to just manage other people's properties. It should probably be to build up your own portfolio of stuff and and make some money That's probably a bigger better play and leveraging your company to attract deals and to attract Real estate so let's get into this. Where do we start? Seth Williams (06:37) Yeah, well, what I just described, there's kind of the high level view of how you find properties in the first place. And I mean, in terms of like people out there who are property managers who might invest in houses and that kind of thing, there's only one tax list or the land portal can work for those kinds of properties to the main difference is that you're going to find usually less competition when dealing with vacant land, because most people aren't thinking about land, thinking about houses. They think that's the way they have to do it. And that's fine if you want that. But the problem with houses, as you probably know, in property management, there's a lot more wrinkles. There's a lot more people problems. There's things falling apart that are broken and get stolen and destroyed. With land, there's none of that. It's a much simpler animal to deal with. But if your strategy is to find rentals or something like that, you could certainly scope out rental properties using the same method. You would just be targeting different types of property owners than I do. Jason Hull (07:10) Thank got it. So how does this connect to self storage? Seth Williams (07:34) Well, self storage is a totally different business than buying and selling vacant land, but there is some crossover. So back in 2021, I found a piece of land that was zoned residential. It was 6.7 acres and I bought it and I rezoned it to commercial. And then I got approval to build a self storage facility because I had always wanted to get into this business. A land business is great for generating big influxes of cash. It's like a cash generating machine. But self storage is a little bit different. At least the way that I do it, it's more of a cash flow play. you know, all in all, took me a couple million dollars to buy the land and build this facility. It took me basically a year to design it and build it. And it's comparatively speaking, more of a trickle of cash, cash flow, but it's permanent cash flow. There's also a lot of depreciation write offs. It's also very scalable. So it's easy to increase every single person's rent by $5 and the value effectively goes way up because of that. But like nobody moves out because it's just five bucks and most people don't care about a $5 increase per month. So it's a very different business. And for me, my long-term goal is to do more of that because the benefit of self-storage is that unlike land, it's not like a thing that you have to keep peddling for it to keep working. Land is a very active, you know, got to keep peddling or the cashflow is going to stop. Whereas self-storage is, well, you can buy one facility and the management is not terribly difficult for that, at least compared to like a rental property and the cashflow will come in for as long as you own the thing. So that was why I made that shift. Jason Hull (09:12) Nice. well, tell us a little bit about cell storage. How does that work? How can maybe property managers potentially get in? Seth Williams (09:21) Yeah, well, it's when I first got into it, what I tried to do is buy an existing facility from somebody within like an hour driving radius of where I lived. And I think that's probably the best first move is to do that if you can, because you don't have to deal with all of the work of construction and there's cash flow on day one. So like right when you buy the thing, money is already coming in. Whereas when you build a new one, it takes months for the thing to fill up. So that was what I tried to do at first, but problem was in my market, I couldn't find anybody who wanted to sell their property at anywhere near a reasonable price. People wanted like twice as much as what their facilities were worth. And people were paying it like it was just crazy. You couldn't find good deals. And when I saw that, was like, wow, I would normally never build something. But if people are being dumb and overpaying for self storage facilities, I could probably give this a go. And even if I screw it all up, I could still sell it and get out if I needed to. So that was why I decided to do that. And it's nice in that you get to design it and lay it out the way you want, but it's also a much longer runway required to put the cash in and then wait for it to fill up and start cash flow. Jason Hull (10:29) Yeah, this is our market to building these things out and then just selling them even though they're empty. Seth Williams (10:35) Yeah, that's what some people do. Selling them empty. I mean, that's not the ideal play. The real value of these things comes from paying tenants, that kind of thing. Maybe what most people would do is build them or maybe even buy an existing one that's half empty and then fill it up. Like do whatever you have to do to get tenants in there, whether it's changing the pricing or advertising more. And then once it's at least reasonably full, then you could cash out and do whatever you want. Buy another one or do something else. Jason Hull (10:39) Right. Got it. Okay. Got it. Cool. So vacant land, self storage, and then you're also like, you do a lot of content creation stuff in the real estate space. So tell us a little bit about that. Seth Williams (11:12) Sure. Yeah. So I started a website called REtipster back in 2012. And it was really kind of a place to store a lot of the lessons and knowledge that I had gained from my experience in land investing and in owning rental properties and everything I had done to that point. And I didn't really know what the plan was. I just knew, like, it's kind of fun for me to take my ideas and thoughts and things I've learned and distill them down into like bite sized chunks and help other people. figure out how to do the business from where they're at. And it turned out to be a lot of fun. And it didn't make money for like probably the first year that I was running it. But eventually I found ways to monetize it. Started a podcast, a YouTube channel. And a lot of what we talk about is land, but we also talk about self storage and occasionally rental properties, other things that are ancillary related to real estate investing. Jason Hull (12:07) Okay, well cool. Let me do a quick word from our sponsor and then we can get into a little bit more. So our sponsor for this episode is Vendoroo Many of you listening tell me that maintenance is probably the least enjoyable part of being a property manager and definitely the most time consuming. But what if you could cut that workload by up to 85 %? That's exactly what Vendoroo has achieved. They've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all of your maintenance tasks from initiating work orders. and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting. This AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee, learning your preferences and executing tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and never quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well-deserved break. Over half the room at last year's DoorGrowLive event conference signed up with Vendoroo right there. And then a year later, they're not just satisfied, they're raving about how vendor is transformed their business. Don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with vendor. Visit vendor.ai slash door grow today and make this the last maintenance hire you'll ever need. All right, cool. So, Seth. Where should we go from here? We've been talking a little bit about vacant land, a little bit about self storage, talking a little bit about RE tipster. What do you think would be of the most benefit to property management business owners that are exploring some of this stuff? Seth Williams (13:42) Well, you know, maybe we could have a little conversation, you and me. So I've got a few questions I always go to when I'm talking to other real estate investors that are always kind of brings out some interesting perspectives. How long have you been in real estate, Jason? Jason Hull (13:55) Well, so I've been involved with coaching and consulting property management companies. So I'm more of a business coach for like since 2008. Seth Williams (14:04) Mm OK, gotcha. Well, interesting. Here's a question for you. What's one thing that you see new property managers focusing on that you think is actually a distraction from long term success? Jason Hull (14:09) so while. That's a good one. So the most common thing that I see that's a big distraction from long-term success is digital marketing. So a lot of property managers think in order to get more doors or get business, they need to do SEO. They need to do Google ads like pay per click, content marketing, social media marketing. The problem is the dirty secret marketers don't want to tell property managers because they like making money off of them. is that there's very little search volume of people looking on the internet for property management. So they can go on Google trends right now, put in property management backdated to 2004 when Google started tracking data and metrics to the present. And what you'll see is there's very little search volume. And if you compare it to any other term, like compared to AI is a good one lately, it has the same search volume of AI a decade ago. Whereas AI has this meteoric rise. Seth Williams (15:13) Mm, sure. Jason Hull (15:15) And compared to AI, property management is just a little line at the bottom. It like doesn't even register. And so there's plenty of business out there of people that don't want to manage their own property. There's no shortage in the U.S. There's no scarcity, but they're not looking for a property manager actively because they're either not aware that property managers are a viable option or exist, or they are aware, but most property managers suck. So they've written it off. Seth Williams (15:44) Yeah. So how do you find those people then if you don't know where they're looking or maybe you do know where they're looking. Jason Hull (15:44) and they're not really looking. We get them to do crazy things like pick up the phone and call non owner occupied property owners or like connect with real estate agents and create relationships to help the real estate agents get more deals from investors, stuff like that. So. Seth Williams (16:02) Yeah. I'll tell you, there's a ton of power in somebody who's willing to pick up the phone. I mean, so many people don't even want to think about that. But if you can do that, man, you're already way, way ahead of the crowd. Jason Hull (16:09) And there we go. Yeah, I mean, it's the one thing that we can teach clients that they can create business on demand at any time and not have to hope and pray that a market is able to give them something. yeah. Okay. Seth Williams (16:20) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, here's another question. What's something that you hear novice property managers or critics of property managers complain about that makes you roll your eyes? Jason Hull (16:35) Well, the first that comes to mind is a lot of novice property managers complain about the potential clients being cheap. yet they're cheap. And so that's kind of the blind spot that I think there's a lot of property managers that have. They're like, like, I had a client once and he was complaining that, about, you know, I'm tired of getting all these people wanting discounts or asking for us to lower our pricing, all these people that are so cheap about related to property management. And then I saw the same person post in a Facebook group for property managers saying, hey, does anybody have a discount for this? property management software or this then like, what is it? A maintenance software that exists because I don't want to pay full price. And so the irony wasn't lost on me. you know, usually the blind spot that we have is we, you know, kind of project that and create that in others. And so if you're cheap and you have a cheap mindset, then you're going to attract cheap clients. It's far more likely not only that, but you're going to be a lot more sensitive to it. It's going to impact you differently. Seth Williams (17:16) Hmm. Jason Hull (17:36) and people will pick up on that and they'll feel more anxious and be more price sensitive because you are. Seth Williams (17:40) Yeah. For those property managers who are willing to pick up the phone and call around and find their customers, what do they do to avoid those cheap clients? Is there some red flag they can look out for to say, you're not a good fit. We're going to go look here instead. Like, how do you find people that are willing to pay what they have to pay? Jason Hull (17:58) Well, I think I just had Dustin Heiner on as an interview. And yeah, I know him from some masterminds that we're in together. And Dustin's a really cool guy. Dustin had this, we did this great episode where he's like our client's ideal client, really. Because he's like, the first thing I do is I try to find a property manager before I even get a rental property. Seth Williams (18:03) Yeah, Essence Mm. Jason Hull (18:24) And I want to ask them where I should get a rental property and ask them for their advice. And I want a good property manager I can trust before I go find a property. But it's like, usually everyone does it backwards. They go get a realtor, they get a property. Then they go and try and see if there's a good property manager. And he wants to be hands off. He doesn't want to call his property manager. He doesn't want to be involved in it. He wants them to just take care of stuff. That's the ideal. So I think the challenge is when property managers are looking on the internet for clients. They're like getting them through SEO or pay per click. These are the worst investor clients. They view property management as a commodity. They think all property managers are the same and they're not right. Not all property measures the same and most property managers are not very good. So to find the exceptional ones, usually you're going to find the better clients for a property management business by doing stuff that is Seth Williams (19:11) Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (19:20) more towards the strategies that we would rely on, which are warmer leads, warmer connections, so that you're not getting the crappy scraps that fall off the word amount table that are now searching on the internet looking for the cheapest manager. And if you build your portfolio off of digital marketing and the cheapest and most price sensitive owners, then you're going to have the highest operational costs, more than my clients at least, and it's going to be expensive to run your business. So. Seth Williams (19:43) Yeah. Yeah. What do you think makes somebody a good property manager? Because I've had my share property managers that were terrible. had one that was pretty, pretty decent. And in my case, I thought what made them stand out was just really good communication. Like I was always in the loop. I was never questioning where things were at. Like I just, I just felt like I knew what was going on. I don't know if that's true for everybody, though, in your mind, like the ones that really stand out and just kill it in this business and have no problem. finding clients and keeping them happy. Like what is it they're doing that makes them so good? Jason Hull (20:16) Okay, this is a great question and I love that you shared your perspective. And tell me a little bit more, what do you think makes a good property manager? And then I'll share my thoughts, which might be a little different. You said good communication. Seth Williams (20:28) Yeah. mean, I just kind of mentioned that. Yeah. And I will say one thing, you know, one of my nightmare experiences with a bad property manager was and maybe this is just foolish on my part, but I relied on them to find some subcontractors to, you know, make some improvements and repairs on my property. And they just found horrible people that totally screwed up the property. And and they just kind of walked around all flustered, like, I can never find good people. And like. I don't care. Like if he can't do it, then don't don't do it. Yeah. Like tell me you can't don't just, you know, find somebody who's going to ruin my property. So that really annoyed me. ⁓ Jason Hull (20:59) to the next. Hmm. Yeah, that's yeah, that's hot. Okay, so I mean, according to studies and surveys, the number one reason that people leave a property management company is communication. And so I think a lot of property managers mistakenly think they need to over communicate. But I think what a lot of property managers do is they give their tenants and their owners a blank check to steal all their profits in some instances, because that's The number one source of financial leaks that I've seen in companies is interruptions. so they just, every phone call from every tenant, every owner, constant interruptions means they need way more team, way more staff. This is the business. What I've found is really effective property management companies aren't communicating all the time. Good communication is what the clients want if they don't trust the property manager. Seth Williams (21:41) Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (21:55) If they trust the property manager, they want zero communication. So that's very different. So the best property managers, what I think is they set really good boundaries. It's different. It's not like, hey, I'm going to talk to you all the time. So for example, my wife, Sarah, she managed 260 units part-time in 20 hours a week, basically by herself. She had one time, one part-time person boots on the ground, C-class properties, average rent below a grand, difficult tenants. and she had plenty of time and she had 60 to 90 % profit margin in her business. One of the most ridiculous like case studies I've ever seen. Like she was really successful, very profitable, but she basically had a conversation with her owners at the beginning said, hey, it's been great getting to know you, getting to know your property from here on out. You're not going to be hearing from me much. If I call you, if my name shows up on your phone, I'm asking for money because there's a problem. So you're probably not going to want to hear from me. And she was said as a joke, but she was setting boundaries and they would laugh. But that was how they trusted her. They trusted her because she set really strong boundaries. And so that reduced their anxiety and it lessened the amount of times they had to call. They weren't like, hey, Sarah, did we get that tenant yet? Who's looking at the property? Anyone look at it this week? Like what's going on with the maintenance? What happened with this? Are we getting this handled? Like they weren't anxious. They trusted her to manage and she was good at managing. So one, you got to be good at managing. Seth Williams (22:57) Mm Yeah. Jason Hull (23:17) Like you've got to have good vendors. You know, you've got to have good resources. Otherwise, why would they use you? Why don't they just do it themselves? As a good property manager, you should be way better at it than your clients. You're the professional. Which means you're not relying on them to tell you what to do. They should not be micromanaging the manager. They didn't want, they didn't hire you to micromanage you if you're a property management business owner, right? And so I think that there's good communication. Seth Williams (23:27) Yeah. Jason Hull (23:44) This is the superficial thing that everybody sees. The better thing is having really good service and really good boundaries is even better. Seth Williams (23:52) Yeah. Well, it seems like the boundaries thing works as long as you are good at your job, right? I mean, if you do let a place sit vacant or if you do find a subcontractor who screws the property all up, your trust is gone now and they are going to be harassing you. Jason Hull (23:58) Yeah. Yeah, you can't say, don't call me. I'll let you know when I get this taken care of, you know, because their anxiety is going to go through the roof. Right. Yes, exactly. You have to be on top of your stuff and you have to be good. but the conversely, you can't be good if you are over communicating with everybody. It's not it's not a scalable business. You just can't do it. And so if you are giving everybody all the attention all the time, Seth Williams (24:12) Yeah. Jason Hull (24:31) it's going to be very little attention and it means you're not going to be able to pay attention to and focus on the things that actually matter and do a good job. So setting boundaries is required in order to do have a really healthy business that does perform well. Especially if you're a business owner. Seth Williams (24:43) Yeah. Yeah. I guess like say if you're managing a property that's in the armpit of town and it's going to take a long time to find a tenant. I mean, maybe it's starts by just telling that property owner, hey, it's going to be a while. Like set the expectations. Like don't make them think it's going to happen fast when it's not. Is that what you do? Jason Hull (24:55) Good expectations. Absolutely. Yep, setting good expectations, setting good boundaries is absolutely critical. And I think that goes for any business. Any business that involves humans, right? If they can land, there's not a whole lot of people involved, but maybe in the deal, you need to set boundaries and expectations, right? In self storage, same thing. You have tenants, there are people involved. It's a little less than dealing with toilets, and termites, but. Seth Williams (25:17) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jason Hull (25:27) There's still humans that are involved and you have to be willing to set boundaries. know, there's self-storage places in LA that have a problem with homeless people trying to build homes inside of them. Right. Like that's probably outside of like what you wanted to be selling, you know, it's not probably legal for them to live there. Right. And so, yeah, setting boundaries, setting expectations. And they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And that's probably true in any business. Yeah. Seth Williams (25:51) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I'm wondering if you could wave a magic wand and fix anything about the real estate industry right now, what would that be? Anything come to mind? Jason Hull (26:03) Ooh, fixing the real estate. Seth's interviewing me now, everybody. and yeah, you are. You are good at this. so, well, why don't you go first? This is a great question. So Seth, what would you wave your magic wand and change about the real estate industry? Seth Williams (26:07) Yeah. I'm pretty good at this. Yeah, mean, mine would be mostly related to the niches that I'm in. So like land and self storage and on the self storage front. So the way that we manage our properties, the software is a huge component. mean, it's it's a very, very important. It's how we assign gate codes. It's how we get people's payments. It's how we communicate with them. Like it's a big deal. But a lot of the software out there is terrible. Like it is just garbage software. It looks like it was designed 20 years ago and it's It's like antiquated, but it's expensive. And the problem is, once you start using it, they kind of hold you hostage. So like, even though it's bad, you got to keep paying for it and rewarding this broken system. So it's just a it's just a pain. So if I could wave a wand, I would probably make it super easy to jump ship and switch softwares without them holding all of my customers information hostage. That's what I'd fix. Jason Hull (26:55) Yeah, you're in bed forever. Got it. You might be able to wave that one now with vibe coding and AI. It's probably possible. Get a nerd, they create a prompt for you. They could probably import the API or the data or the information from an existing company software, or at least get a CSV export and you could probably create your own software from scratch. It does exactly what you want. And kids are making software every day now. Somebody just made vibe coding software and some women made this app. Seth Williams (27:17) Cool. Jason Hull (27:41) called T or something like this. And it was like rating men for dating. So women could say, this guy's like not a great guy to date or something like this. and it was like at the top of the app store, like you can, you can create stuff now through AI. And the only problem with that app is they had a big security flaw that some guys probably didn't like what was on the app about them easily hacked it. And they doxxed all of the women's Seth Williams (27:51) interesting. No. Jason Hull (28:09) Credit or not credit cards, but their drivers licenses that they had submitted to verify their profiles and they made it all public Right. So if you're doing vibe coding people make sure you have somebody take a look at the security side of it All right. Yeah, so but that you know that could be that that could be a magic wand that could be waived My magic wand in line with what you said I would selfishly do something towards the property management industry is I would change the licensing requirements throughout the US, because the licensing requirements in each state to be a property manager have nothing to do usually with property management. Usually you have to have a real estate broker's license in order to manage rental properties, and that doesn't qualify them to manage rental properties at all. But it does create a big hurdle for them to be able to do it, and so it keeps probably some good actors out. Seth Williams (28:48) Yeah. ⁓ Jason Hull (29:03) and probably makes people feel overconfident to do something that they probably aren't prepared to do. And very few states have a separate property management license. So, yeah. Seth Williams (29:12) What is the connection there? Like, is it because you have to effectively list properties? Like, you're not selling it, but you have to list it publicly and then respond to people who are interested in that kind of thing. Jason Hull (29:19) Yeah, I think it's related to leasing and renting properties. The number one source of complaints at most board of realtors is related to leasing, not real estate. so, yeah, so there are some things in which, but there should be separate licensing, separate rules specific to property management and that maybe raise the bar for property management so that they come in, you know, understanding some things legally. Seth Williams (29:29) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Jason Hull (29:46) that are related to that because there's a lot of real estate agents that are doing some stuff that's probably not legal when it comes to leases or having conversations or probably breaking laws, you know, and so that can be dangerous. we have one of our lead magnates that we have that we have clients build out is a 411 on leasing course. And it's basically a course property managers can download, put their branding on and go scare the shit out of real estate agents in handling leases. And so that these agents will refer business to them, which isn't hard to do because a lot of real estate agents are dabbling in leases and they should not be messing with it because it puts the real estate license at risk. So. Yeah, so that would be my magic wand. Well, that's to tell us a little bit about your podcast and some of the stuff that you're up to lately and how people can get a hold of you. Seth Williams (30:26) Yeah. Hmm. Interesting. That's cool. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, the REtipster podcast, it's really creative name, just REtipster podcast. I've been running it since 2018 and every week, just talk to people that I find really fascinating. Sometimes they're in land, sometimes self storage, sometimes neither. They just have a really cool thing going on and I like to grill them and ask them questions and really get to the bottom of like how they're doing what they're doing. So not surfacey questions, but like really getting into it. It's a ton of fun. So Yeah, feel free to check it out or anything at retipster.com. That's kind of the home base where you can find all the stuff I have out there. Jason Hull (31:18) Perfect. Very cool. Well, Seth, it's been fun. Appreciate you asking me some questions. That's always a surprise. And it's great having you here on the the DoorGrow show. If those of you listening, if you've been stuck or stagnant in your property management business, you want to take it to the next level, reach out to us at door grow dot com. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at door grow club dot com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time. Seth Williams (31:22) Yeah, likewise. Jason Hull (31:46) Remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

In business and in sales, the future is changing faster than most can keep up. AI isn’t just a buzzword anymore. It’s transforming how deals are made and how teams operate. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Steve Trang of ObjectionProof.ai to explore how AI sales reps can book appointments, review calls, and follow up with leads instantly, what this means for property management entrepreneurs, and why learning to leverage AI now is critical to staying competitive. You’ll Learn [01:24] The AI Revolution [11:11] AI Sales Reps [17:39] The Future of AI in Sales [27:31] The Importance of Asking Good Questions [34:49] Setting Impossible Goals to Grow Faster Quotables “I’m not here to say your job is at stake, but you should operate as if it is—because if you’re not, you’re going to get replaced.” “The version of AI today is the worst version you’ll ever deal with—because it’s only getting better.” “AI can instantly—99.9% uptime—call the prospect, ask questions, and book an appointment for you or your salesperson to actually run the sales process.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (00:00) We are building out an AI agent that can actually run sales.   call the prospect, ask questions, book an appointment.   for you,   so it actually sounds like you're having a conversation with another human being.   Jason Hull (00:14) All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing.   increase profit and simplify operations and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway.   to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, my guest today is Steve Trang of objectionproof.ai, and we're gonna be talking about, I guess, the future.   Does that sound about right?   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (01:36) Yeah, I would say that's very, very relevant, even more acutely today than normal. Yes.   Jason Hull (01:42) So we are in the middle of this insane AI revolution. know, AI is taking over quickly. Everybody's talking about all the jobs that are going to go away. Everybody's playing with chat GPT. It's becoming like their second brain. We're all maybe getting a little dumber because of it. Who knows? But we're also getting more more capabilities.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (01:59) Yeah.   Jason Hull (02:03) It's all speeding up so quickly even before we started. I'm like, I just tried this tool and you're like, have you heard of this tool? And like, there's just so many tools out there. before we get into all that, Steve, tell us a little bit, give us a little background on you as an entrepreneur and how you kind of got into entrepreneurism and what led to objection proof.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (02:26) Yeah, so it's going to be a long, secretive road because I got into real estate in 2005. So, you know, I did the good, you know, the, the get good grades so can get a good job deal. Right. I all that. was an engineer. I worked at Intel. and I realized fairly quickly, I wasn't manageable. And so, I had to, I had to find something else where I could work for myself. I read rich dad, poor dad from that. It's like, I got to do real estate, but.   I didn't take the advice quite right because I became a realtor in 07, not a good time. So that was a major, major humbling experience. I did some short sales, which are relevant again today. I a list of properties for banks, eventually started my own brokerage. You know, when the bank, when the foreclosure started dying down, became, my own brokerage. Did pretty well. had almost 1 % or we had 1 % market share for a very, short period of time. In the Phoenix market, one of every 100 transactions went through our brokerage.   then, I started buying houses, cash started wholesaling, did some flipping, started a podcast disruptors, which is where most people know me from. And then along the way I started a sales training program, started a title company, did some mortgage joint ventures. and then where we are today is AI. I probably sound very ADHD. I promise you, I don't have it.   I'm just always chasing the next object, which is very much a symptom of ADHD. But I can sit down and focus for long periods of time. It's just that I'm an entrepreneur, I started out as entrepreneur, and it wasn't until the last two, three years that I've actually learned how to actually sit down and focus. So that's how we got here.   Jason Hull (03:58) Okay, yeah.   All right, cool. So now that you know how to focus, what are you focused on?   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (04:05) Our focus is at this point more than half of my work schedule, which is more than 50 hours a week, right? It's probably like 60 or 70, is on AI. And the reason why is because things are changing so fast and the things we're trying to do are so innovative. And everyone says that, right? But like We are building out an AI agent that can actually run sales.   And so that is something that a lot of people have promised is something we're actually doing. Now, it's not going to buy a house. Is that going to convince a landlord to allow you to do property management? You're still going to have to do the heavy lifting. But what it can do is initiate the conversation, right? So if someone fills out a form, AI can instantly, 99.9 % uptime, right, because it's all technology now, call the prospect, ask questions, book an appointment.   for you, the business owner or salesperson, to actually run your sales process. So we can actually book appointments. It sounds real. You can't tell it's AI. Well, if you're really, really deep in the AI world, you could probably tell it's AI. But most people can't tell it's AI. And so it actually sounds like you're having a conversation with another human being. And it took a lot of effort to make that happen.   Jason Hull (05:22) Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (05:23) So that's where a core, a very, very heavy percentage of our detention is today.   Jason Hull (05:28) Got it. Yeah. I've started playing around with it. I haven't pulled the trigger to actually have AI agents calling or cold calling my prospects. I'm a little nervous about doing that.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (05:36) Mm-hmm.   It's a there's there's elements of leap of faith, right? But you can also test it. You know, we have a if you want to, you know, give it out, we have like a way to opt in for AI to call you so you can hear for yourself what it sounds like. It's not perfect, right? Like the we launched it on August 1st to all our existing clients. So, you know, not that long ago. ⁓ And we're learning about bugs that we weren't aware existed as we're testing it.   Jason Hull (05:59) Yeah.   Yeah.   Right. Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (06:06) because that's how new this is, right? So we're still iterating   and getting better all the time.   Jason Hull (06:10) Yeah, got it. OK, cool. Well, that's that's the future. I mean, the amazing thing is. I just signed up for an AI tool like this last weekend and they had this chat bot on the home page that you click talk and it's like a voice, it talks to you and it can hear you talk and it was in the voice of one of the principals of the company. And it was like really good. I don't know if they use 11 labs to do the voice or whatever.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (06:29) Yeah.   Right.   Mm-hmm. It's probably   11 labs, so that would be my guess.   Jason Hull (06:40) But   yeah, it was like his voice and I could ask it anything. I was asking like, it do AI, like can it do API integrations with HubSpot and how would it connect to this? And it was like giving me, yeah, you could do this and this is how it would work and this way. And I was like, there was no question I could ask it, it didn't know. And it knew everything about the tool. I could ask all sorts of questions about its capabilities and it's like, nope, we don't have that functionality but you could do it this way. And I was like, I was like.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (06:53) All right.   Jason Hull (07:07) I felt like it knew more than any salesperson at their company I could have talked to.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (07:12) Oh, 100%. Yeah.   Jason Hull (07:14) And so I was really blown away. was like, I I spend hours asking questions because they had, it was like, you have to pay for the year for this tool, right? So I was like, I'm not going to pay for the year for a tool. If I don't know, like I can't trial it or anything. So I was like, I'm asking every question and because it could answer every question I could throw at it with ease. I got all my answers asked and nobody there had to spend any human labor time to talk to me. And I signed up.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (07:22) Yeah. ⁓   Jason Hull (07:42) It was pretty wild. And I'm like, wait a second, could I do this? Can my clients do this? Yeah. But yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (07:48) ⁓ You can answer   all the questions. That's not a sales thing, right? Because we have a philosophy that sales is an emotional process, not logical process. So it can answer all the questions. It can remove a lot of the obstacles. But someone still needs to either sell a story or a dream. Or our philosophy is can we ask Jason enough questions.   Jason Hull (07:55) Yes.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (08:09) where Jason can formulate his own dream and decide to purchase himself. Because the thing we talk about is we don't sell. We get prospects to sell themselves. And so the one thing that AI cannot do just yet is to get you to sell yourself so that you're willing to sign a contract or pull out a credit card. The thing about entrepreneurs, business owners, and salespeople, the reason why we're such great buyers is because we tell ourselves great stories.   Jason Hull (08:18) Yes, totally true.   Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (08:34) The   general public is not as good at telling ourselves as great as stories. And so they don't need someone to facilitate that conversation to get them to pull the trigger.   Jason Hull (08:42) you   Yeah, I've really followed Jeremy Miner's kind of new model of selling sort of formula is NEPQ stuff. And because I noticed sales was getting harder and harder, like people didn't trust. And we're like in this post trust era, nobody trusts anything anymore. so, you know, everything's fake. Like is everybody's perception, especially since the pandemic, everybody got a little bit burned, you know, in the last several years. We're like, everybody's trying to trick us like   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (08:48) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes.   Exactly.   Mm-hmm.   Everyone has an agenda. Yeah.   Jason Hull (09:10) And nobody has our best interests at heart. Everybody has   an agenda. And I'm actually working on a book right now called the Golden Bridge Formula, which is my philosophy in selling, which is basically if you can showcase how, if I am purely selfish and I'm achieving what I want out of life, I can show how it benefits you, my prospect. And so everybody can trust our motives. If the default assumption in sales is that your motive is to get their money.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (09:19) All right.   are mutually aligned.   Jason Hull (09:34) which is a really crappy sort of motive, right? But I have something I want more than money, right? Which relates to my purpose in life. And so we teach our clients how to build that golden bridge and how to do that. So I think it'll be really interesting to see when people start to build. I think that's the thing is it would take some real intelligence from, you know, a human that understands empathy and understands this.   question-based selling in order to build out AI bots that can do it. Well, I don't know, but we'll see.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (10:04) I would estimate we're probably about 12 months out because we can do it pretty well right now, but we can't do it well with latency and enough information. So like when we're scheduling appointments, like the reason is not to schedule an appointment. There's only a handful of objections, right? But when we're doing real estate,   Jason Hull (10:14) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (10:24) there's a lot more questions that need to be answered. And also there's all sorts of different creative ways we can solve the problem, right? Like, you know, the traditional buying land creatively is like, all right, Jason, look, you can pick price, you can pick timeframe, you can pick payments, but you can't pick all three, right? We're not quite there yet, because the dimensions of how you can negotiate a real estate transaction.   Jason Hull (10:40) Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (10:47) It's substantial, right? It could be like, what's most important to them? Is it the depreciation? Is it the tax consequences? Is it the appreciation? Is it the cashflow? Is it I need to hide my taxes, right? Like what is your agenda? And so like AI doesn't have all the information today.   Jason Hull (11:02) Hmm.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (11:04) But I imagine 12 months from now, we can have enough data, can have AI figure all that out.   Jason Hull (11:10) Yeah, I would think so. okay. Well, tell us about objection proof. Like what is it?   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (11:17) Okay. So, before we get into that, I've been a sales trainer for more than six years now. So we've been coaching the top, house buyers across the country. You know, I'm in Collector Genius, I'm in boardroom and family mastermind. And so like, I work with the biggest and best operators across the country. And as I was looking at it, we've trained hundreds of sales teams and we've trained thousands of salespeople. And so when we talk about our AI tool, it's really just leveling up what already existed.   Jason Hull (11:29) Mm-hmm.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (11:45) And so earlier this year, we had three different individuals. We Stephanie Biders, the left main, Brad Chandler with Express Home Buyers, and then Casey Ryan, another really successful wholesaler in Vegas. All three of them, in a course of days, pulled me aside and said, hey, Steve, can you create an AI tool that does this? Hey, Steve, can you create an AI tool that does that? And the things they were asking for was an AI tool that can do automatic call reviews.   Right, because there's nothing more frustrating as a business owner than to sit down and listen to call reviews, right? I'd rather cold call than listen to a call review. And so, ⁓ so can you automate the call reviews? Especially if it's bad calls, yes. Right, and so can we automate call reviews? all right, so I set out to figure out how to do that. The other problem was like, how do I know my new salesperson is now ready to take leads I'm paying for?   Jason Hull (12:20) Right.   Right, especially if it's mad calls.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (12:43) You hire a salesperson, you onboard and you train them. When are they actually ready for leads that you're spending three, $400 for? Okay, so let's create a roleplay bot that can measure the quality. And then the last thing is how can we have our salespeople train every day on your ideal sales process? So again, the same idea with a roleplay bot is that you can call it every single day and train on it. So we created that.   Jason Hull (12:44) Right.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (13:12) earlier this year and that's been growing like gangbusters. Right. And then the thing again, we just launched this past week or week and a half now is an AI lead manager, which takes it from like someone that fills out an inquiry on the web form to calling them within seconds, right? To talk to them, to schedule an appointment. And the great thing about AI is that it has zero call reluctance. And I can tell you in my own personal experience as the one that created this tool.   Jason Hull (13:30) Yeah.   Yes.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (13:40) When I built it out, I forgot to iterate, like this is super nerdy stuff, right? But like, hey, call three times and stop, right? But I didn't get the counter right, so it always started zero every time I went through the loop. It called me 15 times in a row before I figured out how to shut it off, right? So it's got zero call reluctance. Oh yeah, if you said it, it'll call you 100 times a row, 1,000 times a row, no fear.   Jason Hull (14:01) It's very persistent, yeah.   Well, you know,   that's super interesting because I saw a video recently from Alex Hermosy and I've worked with him. I've been in masterminds with him and he said that he, one of his partner companies that he invests in, they had a 400 % increase in their close rate just by hiring one person to call every new lead within 60 seconds of the lead coming in. 400 % increase in deals close. And I'm like,   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (14:26) Mm-hm. Yeah. Right.   Jason Hull (14:31) That speed to lead is a significant thing. So I've been thinking about the same exact thing. I'm like, can connect Sinflow to HubSpot or can I do something to get some sort of phone agent to like call a new lead instantly? Because it's really difficult to get my team to do that. They might be in the middle of something. They might be making calls right then, you know? And so, yeah, 60 seconds.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (14:46) They're humans.   They can be at a sales appointment,   they can be in the bathroom, they can be in the car driving back from an appointment. Yeah, exactly.   Jason Hull (14:55) It can be late at night, like when the lead comes in, you know, and I don't know,   maybe somebody's filling out a lead form at one in the morning. I don't know if they'd answer the phone, but like call them and text them an email and maybe something happens. don't know.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (15:08) Exactly. Yeah, so that's the problem we seek to solve and I would say we did a pretty good job of it.   Jason Hull (15:14) Nice. Okay. Very cool. So yeah, super cool. So mean, this is the future and you know, I'm sure now because AI allows us to innovate with AI even faster, like it's, it's snowballing. Like it's just speeding up rapidly. It's like, now you can go to your AI and say, Hey, I want to figure out how to do this, solve this problem. And it's like, here's a bunch of ideas, which like   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (15:25) Mm-hmm. Yes.   Mm-hmm.   Right.   Jason Hull (15:38) Evaluate these ideas which ones are the best ideas and it's like this one will give you the the biggest return, right? Yeah, so it's pretty wild. So I think I did in working on my book over the weekend in a day. I probably did what would have taken 90 days of research in it like It just months of research like   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (15:57) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Yeah,   the time compression is just absolutely outrageous. The amount of time AI can save you is just off the charts. I built out the tool. Now there's Ian Ross from an organization. He's the AI Whisperer. He's been training the AI boss for two years now. But I built everything around it. And if I were to try to do everything I did without AI, three years maybe to get it done, right?   to learn React and SuperBase and all this other stuff, right? To learn how to compress audio files and automatically. And it took me months to get a product. We have, we're looking at, have 130 clients now using our tool. And it's something that started less than six months ago. So yeah, AI is showing you how to use AI.   Jason Hull (16:43) Wow. Yeah.   Yeah, I mean, it's scratching a super strong   niche. Like if you go on Google Trends and put in AI and it like, just watch, it's like nothing and then it's just going crazy and it's surpassing everything right now. So let me share a quick word from our sponsor real quick for this episode. So our sponsor is Cover Pest. Cover Pest is the easy and seamless way to add on demand pest control for your resident benefit package.   Residents love the simplicity of submitting a service request and how affordable it is compared to traditional pest control options. Investors love knowing that their property is kept pest free and property managers love getting their time back and making more revenue per door. Simply put, Cover Pest is the easiest way to handle pest control issues at all of your properties. To learn more and to get special DoorGrow pricing, go to the website coverpest.com slash door grow.   All right, so Steve, let's get back into talking about AI. you know, you're focused on the sales side of things. What do you see as the future of what's gonna be happening with sales and what are your team working on developing next?   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (17:57) I mean, the things we're working on next is just getting to the actual sales conversation where, you know, for someone that needs to their house for cash, right, which is our core audience, is how do we get it from beginning of a web form all the way into an actual transaction to actually get assigned a contract? That is going to be the next step. I think we can incorporate transaction management into it.   Right? The goal here is to get to a point where you basically have a handful of salespeople. One person that can handle the acquisitions, the buying of the houses. One person can handle the dispositions. And one person still to really talk to homeowners as scheduled appointments because the reality is AI doesn't replace everybody. AI just makes everybody better. As matter of fact, in half an hour from now, we're actually doing a training internally where our guy Ian, our AI whisperer,   is going to be teaching everyone in our organization prompt engineering. And the reason why that is, is that everyone needs to be using AI. Because if you're not, the amount of productivity everyone in organization, since we started using AI, is at least three times better, at least, if not more. And so every person that's not using AI is expensive now, because their amount of productivity is less than a third of what the other guy who is using AI.   Jason Hull (18:59) Right.   Right. So you could easily 3x the output if you just understand how you can leverage AI in some clever use cases.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (19:18) Exactly. Right. So if you look at that and then the reality is if I can get it down to just the best salespeople in my organization and AI everything else, everyone else that's not using it, their marketing costs, their overhead and everything else is just going to be more than mine to do the same amount of work, which in a very short period of time isn't that big a deal. But if I can reduce my overhead by 10 % compared to you and we're running the same business model.   Next month I have 10 % more to spend on marketing. And the month after that. And month after that. And my sales is only gonna grow. So we're gonna see a time where those that aren't on board are gonna find themselves unable to compete just because of margins alone. We had a, there's a colleague of mine, someone I look up to, I respect a lot. And we had a conversation where she let four people, she let go of four people earlier this year.   Jason Hull (19:50) Right. Yeah. And it compounds.   Right.   to compete, totally.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (20:13) Each person, six figure salary. So, she had to let go four people. And the reason why was that AI can do their job, right?   Jason Hull (20:24) Yeah, I six figure salary is saving like what half a million? Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (20:27) almost half a mil, right? And she's   like, and it sucks because she cares about these people. They've been with her as she built out the company, right? But right now her competition is some kid who lives at home with no expenses. She can't compete with that kid if she has all this expense on her payroll. It sucks. So everyone in our company is going to have to learn how to use AI to do their job more effectively, more efficiently. And so that's, so I would say on top of   Jason Hull (20:31) Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (20:54) the sales part is that everyone, everyone is getting looked at. There's a person in organization, I'm like, how are you getting so much done? Because she has stepped up and picked up three other people's in the last year. She picked up three other people's jobs. And then I talked to her last week, like, what are you doing? And she just showed me her chat GPT that's always open. That's it. She's just picking up other people's jobs because she's able to do it all day.   Excelled at using it and I think that's just that's just the future and this is not nothing new that people haven't heard before Really? What I would say is there should be a wake-up call if you're not listening as a matter of fact I had a really uncomfortable conversation last week Because I train acquisition managers, which is sales disposition managers, which is moving the properties Lead managers we were booking the appointments and then sales managers right how to manage sells people get the most out of them the lead manager call I was like, hey look   how many of you guys are paying attention to what I'm saying on social media? And like maybe 10%, 12 % raise their hands. I was like, okay, if you're not paying attention on what on social media, then this needs to be your wake up call. I have created an AA tool that is directly threatening your job. I am training you and I'm also creating a tool that might compete against you, that will probably compete against you. And so the reality is,   Jason Hull (22:08) or real life.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (22:13) A, it's awesome you're on this call, because you're training becoming one of the better ones across the country. And you have to have this mindset that I'm going to be irreplaceable. So you have to be the best, because this is what you're competing against. So I'm not here to say your job is at stake, but you should operate as if it is, because if you're not, you're going to get replaced. That was an uncomfortable conversation.   Jason Hull (22:30) Yeah, it was at least a year ago when AI was   starting to just sort of peak, you know, come up on everybody's radar. I gave my team, heard of, saw Alex Hormozi like give his team the task of like trying to replace themselves with AI. And so I said that to my team and several were so offended. They're like, you trying to replace us? I'm like, but that's reality. So I was like, try it. And I got some like.   of weak responses because they weren't really focused on it. But now I think everybody can see like this is coming and nobody thought that the most expensive jobs would be the first thing to be going. Lawyers, like doctors, like a lot of this a lot of the data, the research, the stuff that takes a lot of knowledge. It's hard to beat something that can pull in everything, you know, and and then really all these specialists that are so specialized in things, they're   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (23:05) No, no one saw that coming.   Jason Hull (23:23) you know, AI is probably going to eat their lunch and then, you know, and then like really high level copywriting jobs, high level graphic design work, like all of this also. And so it really is becoming a future in which those that are the most creative in thought and how to leverage AI, the creators, and they're going to be AI creators that can leverage AI and know what tools.   are available and they're staying up on that. Those are going to be the ones that are the most valuable team members because they have access to infinite knowledge. Knowledge is no longer a super valuable resource. It's, and you can just get it. We've got the internet, there's tons of it out there, but the people that can figure out how do I isolate what knowledge is needed right now? How do I leverage AI to like figure it out? How do I, you know, then feed it into some sort of agentic system or create some sort of agent or some sort of chat or prompt or rule to like,   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (24:00) Mm-hmm.   Jason Hull (24:19) you know, get the output that I need. These are the people that are going to, you know, be leading the way. And so it's really interesting.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (24:27) Yeah, the creators.   I've been looking at it. we've been using Working Genius internally as well as for hiring. So if you guys that are listening aren't familiar with it, it's created by Patrick Lancioni who wrote like, what is it? ⁓ Amazing books. was, shoot. Anyway, Patrick Lancioni is an amazing, amazing author, wrote some amazing books.   Jason Hull (24:41) He's written a bunch of good books.   That's that from right here.   I've got, where are they? Let's see.   Oh, he wrote The Motive, Getting Naked, The Ideal Team Player, Five Dysfunctions of a Team, Death by Meeting. Yeah, he's got some great books.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (24:50) The advantage is one of them, but there's like...   by this function as a team, yeah.   Yeah, FIDAS   function seems huge, huge one, right? So he wrote working genius. And working genius breaks down to six letters, right? Widget, which is coincidental, I suppose. So what it stands for is wondering, inventor, galvanizer, discerning, enabler, and tenacity. And so most people are two of them as an energy.   It gives you energy, two of them are like it drains you, right? So like I don't like doing work. So T and E is just that for me, right? But I do like to invent and I like to discern. And then Ian likes to invent and likes to galvanize. But the key here is we're both inventors according to Working Genius. And I think right now in this world with AI, it's going to be the people that have the W, the wondering, the inventiveness. I think those are the two they're going to do the most.   Jason Hull (25:30) you   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (25:49) the most well in this new world because we can automate a lot of other things. We can automate the mundane tasks. That's what the agents are for. So it'll be interesting. AI can discern to some degree. It can't galvanize. So we still need someone to lead the charge and get everyone to storm the.   Jason Hull (26:00) Mm.   Thank   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (26:13) stormed enemy territory. But yeah, I think to your point, the creators, I look at it as everyone that's got the wondering and inventiveness is gonna do really well on this new AI world.   Jason Hull (26:25) Okay, yeah. Those things sound fun to me. That sounds like way more fun to be spending my time on doing those kind of things than most anything else you do in business. And I love that you said, you know, figuring out which things are kind of your, give you energy or take away your energy. So one of the things we have our clients do is we give them a time study that we've created that.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (26:32) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Jason Hull (26:49) They do a time study for like two weeks and they track which things are plus signs or which things are minus signs. Just to figure out, because the easiest way I can get them towards more output or towards more joy or more fulfillment in their business or more freedom or offloading the right stuff is just to figure out which things are their minus signs and which things are tactical so we can get those off their plates so they're focused more on the strategic things and the plus signs, which usually are connected. So for entrepreneurs, yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (26:54) Huge.   Mm-hmm.   Jason Hull (27:17) And so, yeah, I think that's going to be the powerful thing is that if people can become conscious of the things that are draining them, then you can just ask the question. You can go ask AI the question, how do I get rid of this? How do get this off my plate? Give me some really good ideas. Yeah. And so we've got this magical thing that it's like we've got the magic genie of answers that can just give us any answer to anything at any time. But you have to ask good questions.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (27:30) All right. It really is that simple these days.   You have to ask good questions, and then the thing that you have to make sure, and I don't know how to do this, is to make sure you don't give up your critical thinking abilities. I think that that muscle is going to atrophy pretty fast in this new world. The ability to actually ask good questions and then filter, is that actually a good answer? Does that make sense? Or are we just accepting the answers? Because you can see, if you just accept things, if you just accept data without questioning it,   Jason Hull (27:56) Mm.   Yeah, it'd be pretty destructive.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (28:08) you're going to atrophy pretty fast, I think, of your critical thinking skills.   Jason Hull (28:11) Yeah. And that's where you hear the horror stories of AI, like people killing themselves because AI told them to, know, stuff like this, where they're just like, they think AI is like, becomes some sort of superpower when it's really just reflecting them. Yeah. It's just reflecting them and their, you know, psychoses, I guess. So I think, yeah, you know, I've noticed that, yeah, sometimes chat GPT, for example, can be very agreeable.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (28:17) Yeah.   It's not all knowing all powerful, it just appears that way.   Yeah, sad.   Jason Hull (28:36) It's like, that's brilliant. You're the best. Like it's giving you compliments. like, yeah. You know, but the reality is, yeah, you have to ask it to challenge you. And you have to like say, what are the flaws in this or what evaluate or, and so I'll have the one AI tool evaluate what another AI tool gives me. I'll say, which of these ideas should I actually do to my offer document or what should I change or what should I improve and which things are not a good idea?   And it rates them for me. Like Claude will be like, this is like, these are the ones you should do. These ones maybe, and these ones definitely don't. I would recommend these. And I'm like, cool, do that. Right? And so, yeah. And so I think we have to, we have to have a brain that's creative enough to see the potential problems and to ask the right questions and to challenge things. because yeah, otherwise you may just   be led down a rabbit hole of your own self-reflection, that's a blind spot.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (29:37) Mm-hmm. It's the same dangers we see with TikTok. It just sends you down the wrong rabbit holes.   Jason Hull (29:43) Right. Because the algorithm is just giving you more of what you look at. you're like, man, I'm really, it's like, you know, that prurient interest where you just can't stop looking at the car crashes that are driving, you know, driving by. then the algorithm's like, cool, they want to see more car crashes. And you're like, wait, why is this awful? Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's, that's the difference between AI and real life. so, you talk about creating a self-managing sales team.   What the self-managing sales team because having managing a sales team is pain in the ass.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (30:16) Yeah, so the self-managing sales team, we're using AI to power it. So it still requires a person to actually care about the other salespeople, right? So the big thing is like, what are you meeting with them? Are you finding out what's important to them? What is their big, hairy, audacious goal, right? So that's the first and foremost. We've got to figure out what their big, hairy, audacious goals are. Then we've got to quantify it. How much money do you actually need to make to accomplish that, right? And then we reverse the math, which isn't new, but   Jason Hull (30:17) They can't.   Mm-hmm.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (30:46) The newer wrinkle here is like we got to tie it to the big hair audacious goal. And then we'd look at, right, how many transactions do you need to close? Okay. And then if we need to close as many transactions in the year, then in real estate, how many contracts do we need to go under in order to have that many closings? Right? Because unfortunately it's not a one-to-one. So then how many contracts we have, then how many appointments do we need to run per week to hit that many?   Jason Hull (30:54) Hmm.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (31:15) closings per month. And then we work into how many conversations do we need to have per week to have that many appointments per week. And then in order to have, then we figure out how many conversations we need to have per day. And we back it all the way up, right? And then.   Jason Hull (31:30) So conversations   to appointments to contracts to transactions to hit the B-Hack. Okay, right.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (31:36) Yeah, yes.   It has to work that way. And the sales manager or business owner needs to care about their people to actually care about those goals. Because if you don't care about those goals alongside of them, none of this matters. You got to care about your salespeople, But once they care about our salespeople, now we can use AI to track and hold them accountable to their metrics. And so one of the things that we have is if anyone's off, we can report this.   And you can do this with VA's and systems and this and that. The things that we've added recently with AI is that in our organization, after every single sales call, AI does a call review. And after it does a call review, it pushes it into Google Chat. So we use Google Chat, you can use Slack, you can use Teams, but we use Google Chat. It pushes into Google Chat where all the salespeople are in. And so it says, hey, Steve on this call got a 51 out of 100.   Everyone can see it. There's no hiding. Yeah, and so then after it gives me that review, it gives me the score, it gives me all the reasons why, I need to, as a salesperson, go in there and comment on it. I agree with this, I disagree with this, here's my takeaway from it, here's what I'm gonna work on. So, that's a super tight feedback loop. Now, instead of a call review that happens maybe once a week, or maybe once a month, or never,   Jason Hull (32:33) Yeah,   Right. Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (32:58) our sales guys are being coached in the moment where they're at in real time. Right? So they're self-managed because they have to go and respond to it. And here's the other thing too, like marketing has always been, or marketing should be accountable. you run your business right, we should know, hey, we spent our X dollars on this. How many leads did we get? How many contracts did we get? What was the revenue that came from this lead source for this marketing channel? What is the return on investment or return on ad spend?   Jason Hull (33:03) Yeah, that's great.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (33:25) We can be pretty good with marketing if we care. Accounting, it's really easy to tell when accounting is screwed up. It didn't zero out. Pretty easy to, you know, black and white accounting. Sales has always been leads went in and there's this black box and then contracts came out. We've eliminated that black box, right? Everyone's accountable to everyone else. So if you're in there,   Jason Hull (33:50) Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (33:51) And you can see, like you're putting up 50s over and over again out of 100, either you're going to self-select out or you're going to get better. But there's nowhere safe to hide in our sales company anymore. And that's how we created a self-managing sales team. Everyone can hold everyone else accountable. Jason can call Steve out, Steve can call Jason out. Right? So that's how we've had that. And then on top of that, our AI tool also has trends. So we can say like, hey, in the last seven days, here's where Jason's really struggling. Coach him on this. Or in the last 30 days, right? So we have one guy.   His struggle consistently is isolating the real objection. That's one of our guys. The other guy, his challenge consistently is not letting a difficult statement just sit there and just ruminate for like five seconds. We'll all agree, yeah, we gotta let it sit there. So those are two different cells, guys, we have two different challenges, but I know that because   Jason Hull (34:36) Right, he jumps in and has to solve it too quick.   Right.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (34:47) every single call is being reviewed. And that's how we build our self-managed Excel team.   Jason Hull (34:51) Wow, yeah, it's really cool. I love the idea of, normally in the past, historically, I wasn't really a big fan of BHAGs, like big hairy audacious goals, because it was unrealistic, I thought. But I recently was in Mexico and I was hanging out with Ben Hardy. And he wrote this amazing new book called The Science of Scaling. And he talks about the importance of having impossible goals. And unless the goal is impossible, because he says if a goal is realistic,   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (35:13) Mm-hmm.   Jason Hull (35:17) then that means basically you're operating on your current limited level of thinking and your brain has nothing to work on. And as good as AI is, our brain really is like a quantum computer. It's like this masterful supercomputer that can create whole worlds. Our unconscious mind can do amazing things in the background. But unless we give our brain impossible goals to achieve, our brain doesn't even work to formulate new paths or new ways of thinking. It gets us out of our current prison of thinking. And so   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (35:24) Nothing to strive for.   Jason Hull (35:45) This is where I think having really big impossible goals gives you a completely different path than a linear realistic goal. so, you know, I think what I've noticed with AI, and you can test this with AI, like just say, if I want to get from zero to a thousand Instagram followers in a year, what would be my path? And it's gonna give you a pretty predictable linear path. But if you say, how do I get to a million followers in a month, for example?   super impossible, how could that be possible? You're gonna get a completely different path, right? And so the path, you know, having better goals or unrealistic or impossible goals allows your brain in the background to come up with new ideas. So I came back from Mexico, I was like, how could it close 100 deals in a month instead of 10? It's impossible. How could I do that? And I figured it out. It took me a week and a half, my brain just figured it out. I'm like, I have to...   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (36:18) True. Yeah.   Jason Hull (36:43) cancel 60 to 70 % of my calls. Anyone like doesn't confirm I have to get them off my plate. I have to have my setters feed them through a different funnel. And so we have a slow lane, middle lane, and I'm fast lane. I would have to, so we re-engineered our entire sales process and I did it in like a day. I did it in a day, maybe two. And I rebuilt everything because I had to create a completely different path in how we were doing it. Cause my current thinking,   well, my previous level of thinking realistic in order to get my company to be at X millions of dollars, you know, bigger than it is now. I was like, I'm going to have to hire like, it was a linear path. I'm like, I'm doing X. I'm going to have to hire 10 closers, 30 setters. And like it was, yeah. And I'm going to have to build this team. And I didn't even want to do it because that sounded so uncomfortable. And now we closed just about as many deals last month as we did the month before, but   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (37:27) Yeah.   Jason Hull (37:39) our sales calls, at least for me, were like a tiny, tiny fraction because we had made the process so much more efficient because without really, you know, impossible goals, we optimize for the wrong things. And I was optimizing for just increasing this linear difficult path instead of looking at how could I eliminate 90 % of the calls and still have the same close rate? That's a completely different path, right?   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (37:45) Yeah.   Yeah, well, I think you're asking your previous questions with the brand you had, right? And so we need to ask different questions with a different, with, yeah.   Jason Hull (38:12) length, which was a brain that was focused on reality. And reality kept   me stuck in the same place for years. And so now I see a path where we can get much larger, much quicker, but it's because I changed my brain's focus into the playground of impossible goals instead of looking at realistic goals, which usually are just a punishment tool that we measure ourselves by.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (38:34) And it's uninspiring.   We're not getting out of bed for realistic goals. And also, in sales, like,   We get punched in the mouth all day every day. Why would you not want to build your dream life? If we're going to do the difficult things, it should be incredibly rewarding.   Jason Hull (38:44) Ahem.   Yeah. Yeah, we get a lot of people coming into the property management industry from the real estate industry, because they're tired of the hunt and chase of deals and getting punched in the mouth. They're like, how do I build a residual income subscription model business that scales and grows, that's systemizable and do that. But a lot of our clients have a brokerage and they have property management, like most of them. They do both. But the   And once the property management business is healthy, it feeds them plenty of real estate deals because investors are always doing deals.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (39:23) Right. Yeah.   Jason Hull (39:24) So anyway, I know, Steve, maybe we should hang out later and come up with some cool ideas together. But yeah, this is really fun stuff to chat about. you know, this probably we could talk about AI probably all day. It's like a big focus of mine right now as well. I'm just super geeking out on it. What, you know, what maybe   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (39:30) Absolutely, I'm game for it.   Yeah, I bet.   Jason Hull (39:47) Big takeaway, would you like everybody to get from listening to this podcast episode and then how could people, who are you looking for to connect with objection proof? And, cause I'm sure some of my audience are your audience as well. And, and how can they get in touch with you?   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (40:03) Yeah, so I think the big takeaway, I mean, we already beaten it quite a bit, but I just want to really emphasize, this is a pivotal moment in time. This is like the dot com era, right? This is like when things started getting online. There are going be a handful of people that are going to make a stupid amount of money in this period of time. And so the same question I always ask is, why not you? Right?   Jason Hull (40:25) Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (40:26) So like if you're afraid just start because the reality is like AI will coach you on how to use AI. So just start. I'll say that and then you know the if someone wants to check out what we do I have a URL objectionproof.ai you can upload any sales call through text. It's gonna be a text file. It can be transcription. It can be WAV, M4A, MP3, whatever you can upload it. There's no charge you can use as many times you want. My team hates when I say that but   You upload it for free and it will evaluate your sales call, will email you the results. That's a free tool we have. Also, if anyone wanted to role play with our boss, you can text roleplay, that's one word, to the phone number 33777. And if anyone wants to check out our lead manager, you can text AI space caller, AI caller, to the same number 33777. Again, both of those are free. We're not charging anything for those.   It really is just a demonstration. All three are real demonstration of our actual product in action. And then we give that for free. Now you are going to have to talk to someone on my team. But you'll hear what our salespeople sound like as well. Or you can just ignore it. Either way is fine. But if nothing else, just check it out because you can see the direction we're heading. look, I've heard people say this over and over again. I always kind of like roll my eyes when they say it. But it's still true.   Jason Hull (41:34) Yeah.   Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (41:47) The version of AI today is the worst version you'll ever deal with. Because it's only getting better.   Jason Hull (41:51) Yeah.   Yeah, and it's crazy. It's really insane how quick things are changing. It's just speeding up faster and faster. So, all right, well, Steve, great having you on the show. Appreciate you hanging out with me. Those of you watching, if you are a property management business owner, you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. We can help.   Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together and guess with AI. Bye everyone.

In business and in life, sometimes things don’t go as we planned. Sometimes, our plans are completely derailed. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull share a recent experience where they ended up in the right place at the right time and discuss the importance of being able to trust the process. You’ll Learn [01:27] A Sudden Vet Visit Becomes An Unexpected Lesson [08:20] When the Plan is Derailed [16:30] Being in The Right Place at the Right Time [23:21] Trusting the Process When Things Don’t Go as Planned Quotables “In business, things are always changing.” “Things might derail us, but that doesn't mean that it has to be a worse outcome just because it didn't go the way that you wanted.” “A lot of times it's not the business stuff that derails us. It's everything else outside of business.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) In business, things are always changing. Things might derail us, but that doesn't mean that it's going to has to be a worse outcome just because it didn't go the way that you wanted.   All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses.   helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world.   and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income at DoorGrow. We are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. now let's get into the show. OK, so we were up way too late last night.   And it wasn't for any really exciting reason. It was because of dogs. So. Do you want to tell the story? Yeah, sure. So you start last night, we were about to settle down and we were going to watch something on Netflix and my dog, my biggest dog, Parker, he is he's our pit bull. Well, he's our pure red pit bull. And he's kind of scratching and pawing at the couch.   telling Jason he wants something. So Jason goes over, pulls it out. And we have these, they're water buffalo horns. Natural, like real water buffalo horns that they chew on. And there was a, how big was it? Like this big? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe like two by three inches kind of a thing. So little last piece of it and Parker wanted it. I got up.   Went to the bathroom. I come out. It's in pieces on the floor. So I did not want him to eat that. So I said, no, no, no, give me that. And he did not want to give it to me. So I took the remaining pieces off of the floor and I figured I would bribe him with a treat. I was pretty sure he swallowed. And at least some of it was kind of dark. Yeah. So pretty sure he swallowed some of it.   And I went, okay, I don't wanna play this game. I've played this game several times. It's not fun. I'm just gonna induce vomiting and then we'll get it out of him and we'll go on with our night. So we do this mixture of hydrogen peroxide and I some vanilla ice cream.   No vomit. So I did another batch of that. No vomit. I did a third batch of that. No vomit. And now I'm starting to panic because it's been about what? 15 minutes at that point. Maybe 20. Maybe 20. And I'm going, I'm panicking. I'm going, I have never given a dog hydrogen peroxide and they didn't vomit. I don't understand what to do. So he had looked up online and he said, okay, well.   Walking I guess will help stimulate that so I went okay. So we walked him down to the end of the block. We came back. No vomit we got into the house as soon as we got into the house, then he vomited twice And some of the pieces had come out, but I was quite large. Yeah. Yeah, I know I don't think they would have passed through a system. So it was a good thing that we did that. Yeah, I know so then I I felt like what if there's more in there because I just don't I don't know   And I get, I get really nervous about that. So we were thinking that most of it kind of came out. I thought maybe there was a little bit left, but wasn't quite sure. Didn't want to induce vomiting again, especially after that much time had passed. It's, it's, it's not going to be good at that point. So we were sitting on the couch. We were kind of keeping an eye on him. He was drinking some water, but then he started kind of drooling.   and that's not a good sign, I went, okay, we're going to the vet. So we went to the emergency room vet. We got there around 11 o'clock.   Okay. Thinking they would get him right in because it's an emergency. Yeah. And they just had a crazy night at this place. Such a sad night for them. So we got there. We drove my Chevy Tahoe, not my cyber truck. Yeah. Because that's the vehicle we usually drive if we're putting the dogs in it, because, know, who knows, maybe the dogs scratch stuff or puke or whatever. So we drove the Tahoe and   We get there and they wouldn't see us. And there's kind of a timeline in Sarah's mind. Well, no, you look it It says pretty much about two hours from when it goes to the stomach into, I think it's called the pyloric valve. You can quote me on that. But then it goes into the intestine. If it goes into the intestine, we're F'd because it's not going to pass through the intestine. I can tell you that for sure.   And once it's in there, you can't get it. It's not like it can regurgitate back out into the stomach. It's in there, it's done. So now your option is surgery or death. Ask me how I know. Been there, done that. Yeah, you had a dog have this issue. Two dogs. Two. Two dogs eating things they shouldn't eat. Yeah. So I'm trying to make sure we can get, if there is something in there, I just want to check and see. Don't even know. Maybe there's something in there. Maybe there's not.   But if there's something in there, I want to get it before it gets into the intestine Yeah, so by the time we got there it already been at least what an hour and a half Yeah Since the original incident so we don't know if there's still something in him and we get there and then we're sitting in the waiting room and there's a Lot of stuff happening. I guess there's just a lot of people ahead of us to have some serious Issues with their pets and so we're waiting   Eventually I go up and you were freaking out. You're like, we're nearing the deadline. I'm counting down. I'm going, okay, we have 20 minutes left. So I go up and I just say, is there any way we can rush this along or is there another place we can go? And she hands me a sheet. Here's some other hospitals in the area. This one's 20 minutes away. It's good. This one's 30 minutes away. It's good. And I was like, my gosh, it's another 20 and 30 minutes. That puts us past the two hour mark. So I...   Explain this to you brought you the sheet like and you said we might as well just yeah go home So I said well at that point if they cannot get us in here and then we have to go somewhere else either way We're gonna miss the two-hour deadline. So at that point now, it's a gamble Okay, so if it's moving on to his intestine now, we just go okay We keep an eye on him and he's gonna be fine or we keep an eye on him and we come right back here when we need to so   We talked about it, we thought about it, and then we said, okay, let's just head home because if there's nothing they can do at this point, like we missed the window. So let's just head home. Okay. So the story gets kind of interesting from here. So we go out to the car, we get Parker in and I push the button to start the Tahoe and it sort of turns over, but it doesn't start. So the battery must be low.   like never has happened ever with this vehicle. And so we were stuck. We were stuck. Okay. Could not. Yeah. Couldn't start the vehicle. So forced to stay there, which actually back for jumper cables. Right. I'm digging around, figuring out where I'd hide, hit my jumper cables in this vehicle. He was pissed. He like hit the steering wheel.   Okay, apparently I got violent with the the Tahoe. He was mad. So get it. It was like 11 45 at night. I understand. Okay, so the story gets even more interesting. Well at this point. Well wait. So at this point I had said to Jason I said wait. my god. What if This is god telling us You are supposed to be here like you are exactly where you are supposed to be I thought maybe because this is weird. This is weird All right, so we're tell you the conclusion of this because it does seem like   some little bit of magic happened. So maybe God really did want to stay. So, but I'm going to share our sponsor for this this this episode, Cover Pest. So Cover Pest is the easiest and seamless way to add on demand pest control to your resident benefit package. Residents love the simplicity of submitting a service request and how affordable it is compared to traditional pest control options. Investors love knowing that their property is kept pest free.   And property managers love getting their time back and making more revenue per door. Simply put, Cover Pest is the easiest way to handle pest control issues at all of your properties. To learn more and to get special DoorGrow pricing, visit coverpest.com slash DoorGrow. Okay. Back to the story. All right. So, so then I'm, find the jumper cables and I'm like, cool. I guess I was   and I was like, I don't even know if I have jumper cables, but I do. I had that planned. So from the beginning, I guess a long time ago, I had stashed them in a panel in the backside of the vehicle that had to pop off in plastic. And then I found them. All right, so I had the bag, I had the jumper cables, and then I'm like, I need to find somebody. And like, there's a bunch of cars, but only one was running and there was only one person outside, so I went up to it. I could tell they were pretty upset.   Like I'd seen them walking around. It's two ladies. Turns out one is the friend of the other and had driven her there in her car. And so I went up to the window and I was like, know, I'll let my jumper cables. She rolled down her window and said, hey, could you help us jump our car? Our car won't start. I could really use some help. And I'm thinking.   she's probably thinking I'm some weird creep or gonna do something or I don't know, like in middle of the night, like it's really, it's late and like, you know, but she was like, she said, yeah, I'd be, I'd be happy to help. My dog just died. And then this lady's coming out that works at this center and she's holding a little paper and she said, this lady is bringing me the prints that they took of my dog's paws.   right now. And I was like, my gosh, I am so sorry. Like this is like one of the most awful things ever. And I didn't, I didn't even know what I could say other than I'm so sorry. And she said, but she was willing to help out. So she drove her car over and next to ours and I hooked up the cables and tried getting this thing started. And it like, I think I charged it. Initially, I thought let's do it for like five minutes, then try it.   Then we waited, didn't work, waited another five, 10 minutes, tried again, still didn't work. Somewhere in the middle of trying all this, the same lady comes out and she's like holding her iPad and she's like, are you guys here for Parker? Are you still wanting to be seen? And I was like, well, I guess. And I said, do you want to? It's already been past that time. And Sarah was like, yeah, we might as well.   Yeah, so I explained to her the issue and she said well It might not hurt to have them looked at and she said it's not a hard and fast two-hour rule sometimes it's closer to two to four so you might still have some time and You know, do you want us to at least check him out and you know? Do an exam like, know, we can kind of feel around in the stomach. Maybe do an ultrasound or an x-ray I said, okay, let's get him in so I went brought Parker in and Jason stayed outside   Trying to jump the car. So this lady said, you know, I told her, you know, I could when I had got offered like asked for help, I had said, well, only, you know, I could give you a hug, you know, was the thing I could offer because she was so sad and I didn't know what to do. And she then told me I started talking with her. She told me that she was she just opened up.   I think she could tell I was probably a safe person to talk to. She just opened up and said, hey, I'm just really debating right now whether I should go see her, go see my dead dog. Like whether I should go see her, because I didn't see her. Like she went in and she passed away and I didn't see her. so I could tell, you know, if she's asking the question, there's probably, it's probably, yeah, you probably should. And I said, well,   I just was thinking, what does she think around and, you know, trying to be empathetic. And I was like, she's, why would she not want to? Well, I was like, are you concerned that if you go see your dog, that that's the image you'll have of her forever? And she said, yeah. And she starts crying. She said, yes. I said, you have a lifetime of experiences with this dog to remember, you know, with her to remember her by.   This will not be the defining thing, but I think if you don't go and get full closure on this and you know, there's going to be an emotional thing that just doesn't happen. You know, you need, you need to get that closure and that would be my, my guess, but this is for you to decide. And, I guess based on that conversation, she decided to go, to go, to go do it. So she.   like I'm gonna go do it and so she goes get in my car still her car still running I'm still trying to charge my car figure out well now I guess I'll just let it run for a while and I let it run for a good another 10 15 another 15 minutes at a timer still wouldn't start car just would not start it wouldn't turn over   So she goes in and then eventually she comes back out and she's like, they're making me wait. I think they're trying to get her presentable for me. And I said, well, it's probably a good thing. You know, but she's like, but now I am like, I'm thinking all about it and I'm stressed. And I have to wait. was hoping I'd just walk in and see her and be done with it. And I was like, yeah, I get that. And I guess you were inside with Parker and you had eventually she was.   came out and they were like, you can go in. She, she went in to go, go see, but I had asked her, like, do you mind me asking what happened? She said, my dog was in a car accident. A car hit my dog, not a car accident. My dog hit like I hit by the car and cause she gets out and thinks it's super fun to get out and had gotten out and she was feeling really guilty. Like it was her fault. And so she went in, I guess, to go see the dog and I was outside with the cars, but you had kind of, you were inside.   to share? Yeah well I was inside with Parker just kind of waiting so at this point they had already come and checked a few things preliminarily and then they were sending the doctor in and I think everybody in the building could hear that poor woman she was just absolutely crushed and heartbroken and just wailing and crying and I am not   one to cry and I'm sitting there I've got like tears coming down my face I'm going god this poor woman just because I've been there and I know what that feels like. So then the doctor ends up coming in and she's kind of checking him out and asking me some questions and the fact that it was a water buffalo horn was really confusing for everyone because it's not very common. So she's kind of feeling around on his stomach and she goes he has a full bladder.   She said, he might need a potty break. And she said, OK, and then I'm just going to check a couple things here, and then we're going to take him in the back. We'll do an ultrasound. I said, OK. So as she's doing her heart check on him, she said, hey, did anyone ever tell you that he has a heart murmur? And I said, no. And she said, OK, well, it's not anything serious right now. It's really not bad. But it is something to keep an eye on because.   it could be associated with something like heart disease or a heart failure. So there might be some underlying heart condition. It's you might want to talk to a cardiologist and just kind of have them check it out. I said, okay. So then she took Parker back and I was waiting for them to come back. She comes back at some point with him and she says, well, she said, okay, so here's what I think about the bone. I'm still going to stand by my original statement.   I would not recommend inducing vomiting again. You already did that. Some of the bones came out. She said, if there's anything else in there, I would not recommend inducing vomiting again. Sometimes if you do induce vomiting, then something might get stuck in the esophagus. It might scratch or tear the esophagus. Now you have a critical problem. So she said, I think you already did that. Don't worry about it. I would not do it again. I would not recommend us doing it again. She said, if it's a bone,   Their stomachs are just meant to digest that. Don't give him any sort of anti acid. Just let his stomach do its thing. And at some point it'll disintegrate and it'll pass normally. So I said, okay. And she said, I do however have some bad news. And I said, well, what is it? And she said, well, do you know when I was feeling him and I said, his bladder seems full. Well, that was not his bladder.   And she said, so he has a large mass located right behind his bladder. And she showed me the ultrasound image of it. And it's larger than a grapefruit right now. So it's pretty big. And she doesn't know what it is. She's not sure, you know, is it liquid? Is it some sort of cyst? Is it some sort of like tumor? We don't really know what it is.   She sent me a referral so that I can go and have them do an ultrasound and then have them kind of take a look at it. They of course recommended biopsy, which I'm not going to do. But she said, yeah, I would definitely have this checked out. And she said, I am so, so, so sorry to have to tell you this. But the way she was breaking it to me was almost like she was treating me like the woman who, yeah, who like, whose dog just passed away.   And I'm thinking, okay. So from her point of view, I understand why she was kind of reacting that way. I do understand why she thought I would react that way. But I think the way I feel about it is I don't think we're gonna go the typical normal route of let's go and have somebody poke it and rupture it and then.   release whatever it is out into his body to just float around and that'll kill him in like a year. And in the meantime, we're going to do all kinds of medication and cancer treatments and radiation and chemotherapy and all of the things that then will also kill you. We're not doing any of those things. But yeah, the point is she felt like it was really, really bad news and you felt like you're going to figure out a solution. Well, I felt like it was just a good thing that that was found.   We know because we wouldn't have known otherwise. How would I have ever known that? He's perfectly healthy. There's no it's not like, you know, there's any kind of warning signs. The one thing is he did lose some weight. So at some point that might have been a concern for me. Like, hey, I'm trying to get him to gain weight and he doesn't seem like he's gaining weight. Maybe something would have shown up on blood on a blood test at some point. But I just don't know that they would have.   Maybe eventually they would have found that. Yeah. But I just don't think like right off the bat, they would have found it. But it would have gone on a lot longer if there was an issue. So and we don't know what the issue is fully yet. That's still to be determined. however, yeah, that that that gal came out after viewing her dog. She was just I could tell a mess. So I I couldn't get the car to start. Didn't matter how long I was charging it. So I said.   Let me just unhook this and you just go, go do what you gotta do, go home and close their thing, their hood and let her leave. So there I am with this dead car. I don't know what's going on with Parker and you're in there and I'm so frustrated thinking, do I need to like get an Uber home, go get my cyber truck to come here and try and jump this car or try and get, like, am I gonna need to roadside assistance? So I'm trying to figure out how to get roadside assistance from our insurance and.   It's just, I'm trying to figure it out. And then eventually some other couple came out and they were like, I chatted with them a bit and they're like, yeah, we're here for another hour at least. Our dog's in surgery. It had gotten sliced open through its whole side somehow and they have no idea how it happened. And I'm like, that's crazy. They're like, yeah. And so I chatted with them for a bit and I said, well, could you help me jump my vehicle? And they had a, they had a,   Ford that was kind of similar in size to my Chevy and I thought maybe this one will have a little more juice somehow I don't know alternators only are adding a lecture, you know To on the on the meter there, you know to charge the battery, but I turned off all the everything I went away from it. So nothing was turning on we Charged it up. I tried starting once it didn't take but it sort of did something so I just left it charging a bit longer I said a longer timer   You eventually came out, but right before you came out, I tried, I was almost ready to submit the form to get roadside assistance to have them come out for the battery. And it was that or towing. Those are your two options. It's like, did you already try to jump it? If you did, they would only send towing. So I had to say no, like come out and help me jump it. And so I asked him if he could help me try one more time and.   He was really nice guy and they were stuck there for a while. So we just charged it for like 15, 20 minutes. And then you came out right after I had tested it and it started. And so now the car was ready. It was ready to go. And I'd already tried for like 20 minutes plus of charging before, maybe a half hour, trying to get this thing to work. Couldn't get it to start. And now it started. What's weird is that the car was having more issues than   like with the second thing, like things weren't turning on the second vehicle I was charging it off of than the first. So I was really surprised, but it just started. And then you came out and the car was ready. And so I really kind of feel like maybe you were right. Maybe God was like, you need to be kind of a little angel to this lady that is struggling. I gave her a hug, like I chatted with her a bit, told her she should go see her dog.   She was able to have some big sounds like cathartic sort of release in there. And which, you know, that would have been just stuck inside her, you know, and there always would have been this question of doubt, like what, what, you know, she wouldn't have gotten maybe that closure. And then we never would have found out if there was an issue with Parker, if we hadn't, if the car had worked, we just would have went home. We never would have known that he had a couple of health issues as one of which might be really serious. And we would have just never known and never.   dealt with it probably as effectively as we're able to now. So God works in mysterious ways, I guess. so moral of story is what? Our plan for the evening was we were gonna sit down and watch a show on Netflix. That was what we were gonna do. were gonna do that. Little cuddling, little Netflix and watching. had in mind for us. He's like, no, no, we need you at the Central Texas Emergency Veterinary Clinic.   Their name is so long. I don't know but yeah, no, no, we need you to be right here. So I'm gonna just make things happen to get you there and it's so funny because we we had decided to leave Yeah, we were done. I was like, okay. Well, there's no point in sitting here. I Don't want to sit here for two hours To find out if we have a problem where if we have a problem, we'll just come back   but I don't need to be here in the meantime. So let's just go. And if he has a problem, we will come back. And if he's fine, then great, we'll at least be home. And then the card ends, sorry. So I think what you plan for is not always what you get, but I think what you get is exactly what you need. And sometimes, know, plans may change. Our original plan, the thing that we want doesn't happen, but.   Sometimes there's a better outcome. finding out, is it worth losing a little sleep to find out that a dog that we really love and care about has maybe a potentially serious health issue that we can now nip in the bud and take care of early on? Absolutely. There's no other scenario in which we would have just gone and gotten this checked or that they would have been feeling this pit bull's body to find this out.   It was only because he had eaten that crazy bone that we were and Sarah was nervous enough about it that we went and got got him there and it like it was this whole cascade of magical events to make sure that this happened and so yeah, so it's really mind-blowing how everything kind of can work out and Yeah, the car drove home just fine. I probably was startup fine right now. I don't know. I probably should charge the battery a little bit more but   Yeah, but everything in the end worked out. We're a little tired. But and I think this is a good lesson and we wanted to share because this is real for us is what happened. And you you care about pets like family. You know, a lot of times it's not the business stuff that derails us. It's everything else outside of business. That's one lesson you can take away from it. Like, you know, making sure that your family's good, including pets are taken care of, getting those things checked out.   And then also just trusting that, you know, there's there's I believe and trust that there's a higher power that's watching out for you that has a plan. And if nothing else, it could just be those of you that aren't into that. It could be that you are intuitive enough and magical enough and a creator enough that based on quantum physics or whatever you're into that, you know, things get taken care of and positive outcomes come if you believe in.   in that sort of thing. so I think that's the thing is, you know, In business, things are always changing. Things might derail us, but that doesn't mean that it's going to has to be a worse outcome just because it didn't go the way that you wanted.   That's my two cents. You have anything, to add?   Okay, I'm tired. Can we go? We're gonna we're gonna wrap this up and go take it easy. I'm maybe gonna go take a nap. Yeah. When did we go to bed? Like take a nap. o'clock. Yeah. Take a nap right here. He's gonna nap right here. All right. So hopefully this was beneficial to see a little bit of flavor of our life. I don't know. It's not super property management oriented today, but   If you have ever felt stagnant or stuck in your business or you just don't feel like you're growing big enough, my guess is you don't have big enough goals. And we've seen this a lot with clients. And if you don't have big enough goals, the business is not fun. It's not exciting. So reach out to us at doorgrow.com. We'd love to help you out. Also join our free Facebook group community. It's just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com.   And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review to really appreciate it. Helps us out, helps us be able to help more people like you. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

For many investors, they start their journey by connecting with a real estate agent who doesn’t match their values or understand their goals.  In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Andrew Rhatigan from Rhatigan Real Estate to go deep into the intersection of strategy and psychology and property investment, from navigating relocations and high-value deals to uncovering the mindset shifts that drive success in real estate. You’ll Learn [04:21] Using Psychology to Figure out Investors’ Motivations [09:07] The New Model of Selling: Empathy [13:16] The Property Management Industry in Ireland [21:09] Saving Investors 80 Hours Per Month and Retaining Value Quotables “Most people's end goal is not to have rental property. There's a reason why.” “If the investment vehicle isn't going to help them achieve their why or their purpose, then it's probably not a good idea.” “I think that's really the crux of actual, valuable, true selling. It's not about trying to force people or convince people to buy a product or a service or to get into something. It's about figuring out, do they even need what maybe I could offer them?” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Andrew Rhatigan (00:00) instead of just being sold something for the sake of transacting,   Jason Hull (00:00) And instead of just being sold something for the sake of transacting,   Andrew Rhatigan (00:03) they've been guided to something that's going to suit their risk tolerance, their life now, and also the future if they chose to rent it in time to come.   Jason Hull (00:03) they've been guided to something that's gonna suit their risk tolerance, their life now, and also the future if they chose to invest in the   All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams.   We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners   and their businesses, we want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. And today, my guest is Andrew Rhatigan Welcome, Andrew.   Andrew Rhatigan (01:24) Pleasure to be here, thanks for having us.   Jason Hull (01:26) It's good to have you. So Andrew, we're going to go deep into the intersection of strategy and psychology and property investment from navigating relocations and high value deals to uncovering the mindset shifts that drive success in real estate and business and learn how your innovative approach helps investors save over 80 hours a month and retain up to 10 % more value in their property transactions. All right, so   Hopefully that's got some people ears perked up and their attention peaked and they're interested. So Andrew, give us a little background on you and how you kind of got into business and entrepreneurism and started into real estate investing and all of this stuff.   Andrew Rhatigan (02:09) So firstly, great to be here. And even from your introduction, it made me want to get involved in what you're doing. So it was a fabulous insight into the value you drive for your clients and potential clientele. So essentially, I suppose I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit and by virtue of life's experience, I've gone from every different avenue. And I suppose the backdrop to my life was that my family are and were in property in a very variety of ways. My late father was a developer and I have other family members that are still in development to this day. And   I suppose as I grew up, I was always interested in people and sales, but I ran away a little bit from the property side of things to go forge my own path and explore what I felt, you know, my version of winning was. And I originally studied psychology because at the time I thought it would sound good at a dinner party. I'm happy to say that now at the age of 40, that at the age of 18, guess what? Mic drop. I had no idea what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I studied what I thought would sound good at a party.   Jason Hull (02:47) explore what I felt my version of winning was. And I originally studied psychology because at the time I thought it would sound good at a dinner party. I'm happy to say that now at the age of 40, that at the age of 18, guess what? Mic drop. I had no idea what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I studied what I thought would sound good at a   party.   Andrew Rhatigan (03:06) But how it benefited me was that I understood more about myself, my inner workings, my drivers. And as I grew, I had different businesses throughout my life, but it all centered around two things, sales and people. And I suppose that was built on a foundation of authenticity, trust, and really seeking to build relationships for the long term rather than transactions. And I was in property, been in property for the last 10 years. And when COVID hit, I saw an opportunity to build a business.   Jason Hull (03:07) But how it benefited me was that I understood more about myself, my inner workings, my drivers. And as I grew, I had different businesses throughout my life, but it all centered around two things, sales and people. And I thought that was built on a foundation of authenticity, trust, and really seeking to build relationships for the long term rather than transactions. And I was in property, been in property for the last 10 years. And when COVID hit, I saw an opportunity to build a business   based on my   Andrew Rhatigan (03:36) based on my personality   Jason Hull (03:37) personality type and a niche in the market that was booking the trend of generic real estate agency. So as opposed to simply transacting, charging a simple fee and of rowing in with the rest of the property agency around the world, I decided to create a consultative business that was client first. I advocate for clients and independent. And I suppose I add that layer of   Andrew Rhatigan (03:37) type and a niche in the market that was booking the trend of generic real estate agency. So as opposed to simply transacting, charging a simple fee and kind of rowing in with the rest of property agency around the world, I decided to create a consultative business that was client first. I advocate for clients. I'm independent. And I suppose I add that layer of   Almost sports management to it, you know, so a big part of what we do is we were a fixer for a lot of our clients that come to us with almost a plastic bag full of a jumbled mixture of receipts at account season. And they come to us with a problem or an idea, and then they ask us to fix it or find a solution. And essentially we've become that advisor or that advocate for people who are looking to either put their money to work or who are looking to source a property in Ireland as a base for an investment or for supporting family or themselves going forward.   Jason Hull (04:02) almost sports management to it. know, so a big part of what we do is we're a fixer for a lot of our clients that come to us with almost a plastic bag full of a jumbled mixture of receipts at account season. And they come to us with a problem or an idea and then they ask us to fix it or find a solution. And essentially we've become that advisor or that advocate for people who are looking to either put their money to work or who are looking to source a property in Ireland as a base for an investment or for supporting family or themselves going forward.   Well, let's get into the topic at hand then so how How have you sort of applied this psychology background that sounded cool at a party You know to you know what you're doing now with real estate investing   Andrew Rhatigan (04:46) I think the best way to describe it   is life. You'll often have that you have a different, let's say a room of people at a variety of age brackets and they all have a different view on the world by virtue of what they've experienced, the way they see the world now and obviously their disposition to what they want from life. So I suppose what we do when we're assessing a potential client is instead of me taking Jason's budget and just finding something for the sake of it, I front load the conversation by asking what is it Jason wants from life?   Jason Hull (04:58) I've decided.   So I suppose what we do...   of me taking Jason's budget and just finding something for the sake of it, I front load the conversation by asking what is it Jason wants from life?   Andrew Rhatigan (05:15) What is his appetite to risk? What does he think he wants in a property? And what would that mean if we were to work through that hypothetical? And I suppose what I found quite unique is the way we work with people is I'm quite challenging to what people want to do because I'm asking the question before they've had to buy it because   Jason Hull (05:15) What is his appetite to risk? What does he think he wants in a property? And what would that mean if we were to work through that hypothetical? And what I found quite unique is the way we work with people is I'm quite challenging what people want to do because I'm asking the question before they're fired. ⁓   Andrew Rhatigan (05:32) that advisory piece needs to come into play. So I'm quite like an parent. So if Jason said, let's say if we looked at it from a car point of view, I need a two door sports car that goes from zero to one hundred.   Jason Hull (05:33) advisory piece needs to commit to play. So I'm like a parent. So if Jason said, let's say if we looked at it from a cardboard view, I needed two doors sports card that goes from zero to   100, know, lickety split. I just wanted because I wanted. And I said, okay, but do you have, and I know each other before, do you have dogs? Do you like to play them out a lot? Do you have kids? Do you play golf? Right. asking those questions.   Andrew Rhatigan (05:43) You know, lickety split and I just wanted because I want it. And I say, okay, you know, do you have, and I know we chatted before it. Do you have dogs? Do you like to take them out a lot? Do you have kids? Do you play golf? Am I asking those questions?   We're then essentially creating a foundation where I've challenged someone before they've spent money at that level to really understand what their motivations are. So property, when we're working on it, it's probably 90 % mental and then 10 % execution.   Jason Hull (05:56) We're then essentially creating a foundation for our challenge, some before they spent money at that level to really understand what their motivations are. So property, what we're working on is probably 90 % mental and then 10 % execution.   Yeah, got it. So I love that you're kind of asking them what they want out of life first, because I mean, most people's end goal is not to have rental property. There's a reason why behind, you know,   these decisions and why they have these things. And if the investment vehicle isn't gonna help them achieve their why or their purpose, then it's probably not a good idea. So, cool. So this is kind of how you start with people.   Andrew Rhatigan (06:31) Yeah, people are paying for it right   now. Yeah.   Jason Hull (06:35) So then what do feel like would be the next step?   Andrew Rhatigan (06:38) So essentially when someone has either referred to us or reaches out to us through our various websites or offerings, a big part of what I try and understand is someone's potential profile. So I could have someone that's abroad and let's say they've had a windfall from maybe a bereavement or a financial award. There may be something in that where they maybe need an hour of my time so I can guide them through why they shouldn't be making an investment, especially in the Irish market, because it is quite contentious. Supply is a challenge.   Jason Hull (06:55) something   especially in the Irish market because it is quite contentious, supply is   a challenge. ⁓   Andrew Rhatigan (07:06) And when people are looking   at Ireland from an international stage, they probably don't understand the nuances of it. But a big part of what I lean into with people is I will often tell people no, because I'm coming from a place that I want to make them, I want them to go away from meeting us and having that conversation, knowing that we've given the best advice for what they want from life rather than a paint by numbers that everyone can do.   Jason Hull (07:09) they probably don't understand the nuances of it. But a big part of what I lean into with people is I will often tell people no, because I'm coming from a place that I want to make them, I want them to go away from meeting us and having that conversation knowing that we've given the best advice for what they want from life rather than a paint by numbers that everyone can   do. It's everyone's version. I go back to everyone, version of winning is different. And I originally got it from Gary Vaynerchuk about 10 years ago, which was   Andrew Rhatigan (07:29) because everyone's version, I go back to everyone's version of winning is different and I originally got it from Gary Vaynerchuk about 10 years ago, which was one   person wants to work a 30 hour work week, they want to play video games at night and take two holidays a year. Another person wants to have every door in an apartment block and they want to build a special purpose vehicle and build for the next three to five generations, let's say. What drives both of those is inherently different. There's only one Jeff Bezos for a reason.   Jason Hull (07:38) One person wants to work a 30 hour work week, they want to play video games at night and take two holidays a year. Another person wants to have every door in the apartment block and they want to build a special purpose vehicle and build for the next three to five generations, let's say. What drives both of those is inherently different. There's no jet-flazed off for a   reason. So when we're working with people or potentially working with people, we really want to understand what it is they want. So by asking key questions, we understand...   Andrew Rhatigan (07:58) So when we're working with people or potentially working with people, we really want to understand what it is they want. So by asking key questions, we understand   their background, their motivators, their appetite to risk their life cycle as well. Because if someone makes a lot of money, they maybe want to put it to work rather than leave it in a bank. But if someone is not equipped to have, I suppose, the wherewithal to understand when you're putting money into, into real estate, what the implications are, they maybe need someone to tell them not to do it.   Jason Hull (08:06) their background, their motivators, their appetite to risk, their life cycle as well, because if someone makes a lot of money, they maybe want to put it to work rather than leave it in the bank. But if someone is not equipped to have, I suppose, the wherewithal to understand when you're putting money into real estate, what the implications are, they maybe need someone to tell them not to   do it, to put the money somewhere safe and to take a percentage of it and maybe go into some sort of a fractional ownership scheme.   Andrew Rhatigan (08:26) to put the money somewhere safe and to take a percentage of it and maybe go into some sort of a fractional ownership scheme. So   someone who may be able to invest in a larger fund that they can weather the cost and they get a more nominal return in the long term. So I suppose a big part of how I look at it is giving people the advice they need. And then I also have a lot of people who are looking at Ireland now as a place to build a lifestyle. So we have a lot of people who are international looking at Ireland because of the lifestyle, the language and the location.   Jason Hull (08:32) So somebody may be able to invest in a larger fund that they could weather the cost and they get more normal return in long term. So I suppose a big part of how I look at it is giving people the advice they need. And then I also have a lot of people who are looking at Ireland now as a place to build a lifestyle. So we have a lot of people who are international looking at Ireland because of the lifestyle, the language and the location.   Andrew Rhatigan (08:56) So lifestyle because it's quite a relaxed setting, language because English is the first language   Jason Hull (08:56) So lifestyle because it's quite a relaxed selling language because English is the first language.   Andrew Rhatigan (09:01) and location being a jumping off point for the rest of Europe. So we see a lot of ⁓ entrepreneurs, expats, musicians, sports people who are looking at Ireland as a base even for themselves from a personal perspective as well.   Jason Hull (09:01) and location being a jumping-on point for the rest of Europe. So we see a lot of entrepreneurs, ec-pats, musicians, people who are looking at Ireland as a face, even from themselves from a personal perspective   as well. Yeah, I like it. Well, I love what you said about the sales process, that you're not trying to shove them or push them into a particular vehicle. You're trying to figure out what would be best for them. And I think that's really the crux of actual   valuable, true selling. It's not about trying to force people or convince people to buy a product or a service or to get into something. It's about figuring out, do they even need what maybe I could offer them? And if they do need it, do they want it from me? Instead of trying to push them. And I think there's been a huge shift I've noticed in the last, I guess since COVID, we're kind of in this post trust era.   Everybody got kind of burned by COVID because they realized, hey, we were kind of all duped and tricked to some degree. then we're like, especially in the States here in the U.S., we're figuring out, well, voting sort of been fake and food's been fake and everything politically we're lied to and medical stuff is all this stuff is coming out as fake. And right now it seems like now the stuff talked about on the news is the weather's fake. so.   We're like, we feel so manipulated and we feel like we've been lied to in so many ways that trust is at this all time low. The one thing that I've noticed that people trust though, is they trust themselves. And so I think that there's a new model of selling that's really come about as a result of this. If you're trying to be effective and that's being more empathetic, it's allowing them to figure out what they want and what they need rather than just pitching and pushing.   like the old school strategies that you've gotten from all these sales gurus and trainers that have existed for the last decade or two.   Andrew Rhatigan (10:51) Absolutely. I couldn't agree   more. And I think another side of it when you're in property or real estate is you are already a level below general viewpoints on selling because I was in the car business and in the car business, people are anxious. They're wondering if they're going to be sold something that doesn't suit. Are you telling them the truth? And I suppose some great lessons I learned from a wonderful book by Chris Voss called Never Split the Difference. I'm sure anyone in properties read it or listen to it is   Jason Hull (11:04) anxious.   I'm telling them the truth. And I suppose some great lessons I learned from a wonderful book by Chris Voss called Never Split the Difference. I hear anyone in properties register or listen to it.   Andrew Rhatigan (11:17) I really lean into all the fears that people have and I don't use them as a tool to sell them. I use them as a tool to say, look, I know what you're thinking. And, you know, a real estate agent is going to sell you any deal under the sun just to get a deal. So I suppose how I actually booked the trend of that,   Jason Hull (11:17) I really lean into all the fears that people have and I don't use them as a tool to sell them. I use them as a tool to say, look, I know what you're thinking. then, know, I read a sad agent just going to sell you any deal under the sun just to get a deal. So I suppose how I actually booked the trend of that.   Andrew Rhatigan (11:33) the way we price things and our fee is actually you pay us upfront. And the reason you do that is it turns the volume down on the opinions of others around you. rather than me doing a deal for a potentially high fee,   Jason Hull (11:34) the way we price things that our fee is actually you pay us upfront. And the reason you do that is it turns the volume down on the opinions of others around you. So rather than me doing a deal for a potentially high fee   and frantically searching for something to shoehorn you into, I understand what your needs are. We price the package up from day one. It's fixed and you either can pay it all upfront or pay it in monthly installments. But two things that does, it enables.   Andrew Rhatigan (11:45) and frantically searching for something to shoehorn you into. I understand what your needs are. We price a package from day one. It's fixed and you either can pay it all upfront or pay it in monthly installments. two things that does, it enables and empowers   me to say, look, Jason, we found you three deals. I actually don't like two of them because they don't make sense. One here is interesting, but I don't think it's for you just yet. There's no incentive for me not to put you into it. But by paying me upfront,   Jason Hull (12:01) Yeah   Andrew Rhatigan (12:13) you're paying me to tell you no. And I suppose I'm trying to really lean into that trust factor with people, which is trust me enough to pay me, but then you're going to benefit because I'm going to see you right rather than see you do a deal for the sake of closing a fee and a hope for moving on and you lose   my number. No interest. I prefer long-term relationships. And I would prefer, especially in this world now, I mean, if you gave me what 13 hours, I could be sitting in that cool room of yours talking to you. So the world is so small that   Jason Hull (12:29) No interest. prefer long-term relationships and I would prefer, especially in this world now, mean, if you gave me what, 13 hours, I could be sitting in that cool room of yours talking to the world is so small,   Andrew Rhatigan (12:42) build a relationship for the long term. And it means that it then lives beyond our interaction for other people to be referred to, to enjoy, to get some value from. And I love that. It just goes back to the old school way of building trust.   Jason Hull (12:43) but build a relationship for the long-term. And it means that it then lives beyond our interaction for other people to be referred to, to enjoy, to get some value from. And I love that. It just goes back to the old school way of building trust. Yeah, I love it. I think that's a unique model to have them pay you upfront.   then you said it turns down the volume around you. Yeah, because the challenge is a lot of people's first starting point, they will go to real estate agents, which they have a very strong incentive to get a commission out of any sort of investment or real estate deal. And they're usually not really well versed in giving you good investment advice anyway, and let alone having an incentive to do so. And so this is why a lot of   Smart investors will actually usually start by talking to a property manager first, like what properties, what areas are good to have, what sort of property would be a good investment, because they're actually living in it, you know, they're actually living with that property and managing it, making sure that it can cash flow and is effective. And they're doing this for lots of different properties in that market. And so finding a good property manager is a resource. With the stuff that you do over there in Ireland,   property manager's piece of the puzzle.   Andrew Rhatigan (13:59) Yes, so I think we're probably in the grand scheme of how Ireland works. We're probably about 15 to 20 years behind the states in a number of ways. So I suppose you're still going to have a mixture of localized property managers who are very, you know, it's a hobbyist, it's a lifestyle piece where they get, let's say up to maybe 80 to a hundred doors and they can manage it themselves with a certain level of admin, but it becomes more of a practical lifestyle piece for them. But I suppose the other side of it is   Jason Hull (14:25) I suppose the other side   of it is you can then suddenly become a busy fool and you're not able to continue building relationships with people. Servicing clients becomes a challenge. So we're seeing a layer of both technology and I suppose a need for those who want to support larger funds. you have a lot of the investment funds coming in from all over the world and they're looking at Ireland or they're working at Ireland as a good base to be able to buy or build.   Andrew Rhatigan (14:27) you can then suddenly become a busy fool and you're not able to continue building relationships with people. ⁓ Servicing clients becomes a challenge. So we are seeing a layer of both technology and I suppose a need for those who want to support larger funds. So you have a lot of the I-Res, know, the investment funds coming in from all over the world and they're looking at Ireland or they were looking at Ireland as a good base to be able to buy or build purpose-built   Jason Hull (14:52) purpose-built rental facilities. So when you look at Ireland   Andrew Rhatigan (14:52) rental facilities. So when you look at Ireland now,   Jason Hull (14:56) now, you are seeing a prominence of people seeing value in having that layered system of a service you can log an issue in, a ⁓ one-tier contact system where you don't have to forget that Mary looks after accounts, but she doesn't look after facilities, and John looks after X and not Y. And I think people are looking   Andrew Rhatigan (14:56) you are seeing a prominence of people seeing value in having that layered system of, know, a service you can log an issue with. I suppose a one tier contact system where you don't have to forget that Mary looks after accounts, but she doesn't look after facilities and John looks after X and not Y. And I think people are looking at that   as an opportunity to streamline a service for people. But I suppose to be honest with you as well, the challenge for us historically is   Jason Hull (15:17) to streamline the service for people. And I suppose to be honest with you as well, the challenge for us historically   is those who want property managed, understanding the value involved and having someone, like you said, who does it every day, knows exactly how to deal with people, who understand the nuances of it, and paying them to do so on an ongoing basis so they can outsource that whole process and that support going forward. Got it. All right, we're gonna have a quick word from our sponsor, which is Blanket. So Blanket,   Andrew Rhatigan (15:24) those who want property managed understanding the value involved in having someone like you said, who does it every day, who knows exactly how to deal with people, who understands the nuances of it and paying them to do so on an ongoing basis so they can outsource that thought process and that support going forward.   Jason Hull (15:47) is a property retention and growth platform that helps property managers stop losing doors and add more revenue and increase the number of properties they manage while your clients with a branded investor dashboard and an off-market marketplace, while your team gets all the tools they need to identify owners at risk of churning and powerful systems to help you add more doors. So check out Blanket, I think it's a really cool platform. So, all right, back to you, Andrew. So Andrew, what?   Do you feel like you would like the rest of the United States investment world and property managers to know about Ireland? Like what, what don't we know about it? Cause we're kind of in our bubble here in the unit US a lot of times. So.   Andrew Rhatigan (16:28) You know, I think it's   probably amazing when you look at the history of Ireland's role in the world. We're quite a new country in the grand scheme of the value we've driven internationally. And I suppose we've got obviously a very long standing historic and positive relationship with the states generally by virtue of, I suppose, our connections with the United States and that history that we have obviously going over there for a long time. But I suppose what's happening now in the last two decades is we have a lot of companies that have really shown their muster. We've had a lot of   Jason Hull (16:49) street.   But I suppose what's happening now in last two decades is we have a lot of companies that have really shown their muster. We've had a lot   of growth from an economic perspective and we have companies and people that are probably making the most money they've ever made and they're going to put it to work. I suppose another challenge or I see challenges as opportunities as well is the Irish market at the moment is in dire need of more supply and we have some stringent planning laws that are going through.   Andrew Rhatigan (16:58) growth from an economic perspective. And we have companies and people that are probably making the most money they've ever made and they're looking to put it to work. But I suppose another challenge or I see challenges as opportunities as well is the Irish market at the moment is in in dire need of more supply. And we have some stringent planning laws that are going through.   I suppose that they're going through the ringer at the moment because you have developers who want to build and they want to grow.   Jason Hull (17:20) I suppose that they're going through the ringer at the moment because you have to have developers who want to build and they want to   grow and they've been stymied by a system that it can be clunky and quite slow. But I suppose when I look at Ireland from the perspective of an international platform, it's very easy to overlook everything we have that we don't have extreme heat, don't have extreme...   Andrew Rhatigan (17:26) and they've been stymied by a system that it can be clunky and quite slow. But I suppose when I look at Ireland from the perspective of an international platform, it's very easy to overlook everything we have that we don't have extreme heat. We don't have extreme climate   events. I suppose when it comes to being central, a lot of companies have chosen Ireland because it's a good HQ for their employee base. You're going to get great talent, but you can also travel around Europe. But when people look at Ireland from an international point of view, we still have so much land.   Jason Hull (17:40) I think there   is scope in the future to take a longer term view as to what Ireland could become from a development point of view. I think internationally there's a lot of points we could take from   Andrew Rhatigan (17:55) that is undeveloped, that I think there is scope in the future to take a longer term view as to what Ireland could become from a development point of view. And I think internationally, there's a lot of points we could take from   clever use of building, repurposing commercial developments, repurposing commercial buildings into residential, and also taking a view to exponential growth of these large companies that will need somewhere to grow and adapt and obviously as the population grows.   Jason Hull (18:08) Clever use of building, repurposing commercial developments, repurposing commercial buildings into residential and also taking a view to exponential growth of these large companies that will need somewhere to grow and adapt and obviously if the population   grows. But I think the opportunity for international people is to take a view as to unique building practices, potentially the next iteration of life at let's say data centers. At the moment they're in flux in Ireland, but I also   Andrew Rhatigan (18:23) But I think the opportunity for international people is to take a view as to unique building practices, potentially the next iteration of the likes of let's say data centers. At the moment they're in flux in Ireland, but I also think that people   Jason Hull (18:38) think that people can sometimes be overwhelmed by the concept of the perceived challenges and not seek out the unique opportunities. It's often like many business people who set up in the recession would say that was the best time to set up because it gave them the most opportunity.   Andrew Rhatigan (18:38) can sometimes be overwhelmed by the concept of the perceived challenges and not seek out the unique opportunities. And it's often like many business people who set up in the recession would say that was the best time to set up because it gave them the most opportunity.   I think this unique position Ireland is in is we have all this space, we haven't used it, building is in flux, but I do think if someone came in with a long term view, there is great scope for growth, but it's just about taking an outside eye and having the patience and the determination to see it through.   Jason Hull (18:53) I think this unique position our own disease we have all this space we haven't used it building is in flux but I do think if someone came in with a long-term view there is great scope for growth but it's just about taking an outside eye and having the patience and the determination to see it through.   Okay, so maybe some listening will have that long-term vision. there's no extreme client, good talent, people speak English there, which is great for us Americans, right? Europe travel hub, there's plenty of undeveloped land, so there's investment opportunities and maybe some potential data centers being built there, stuff like this. So it sounds like there's a lot of good things that could be potentially happening in Ireland.   So this is a really dumb random question, but how do the Irish in Ireland view the state celebrating St. Patrick's Day and kiss me I'm Irish and drinking green beer and all that?   Andrew Rhatigan (19:48) Well, I can, I can only speak for myself and those I know. I suppose the, one of the things that's very profound as an Irish person is you can overlook everything we have when you're here all the time. So the exact example, let's say someone who lives in New York, Times Square is just there and they just assume it's, always going to be there. The, know, if you're in Paris, the Eiffel Tower, et cetera. When you think of the impact and the relationships Ireland has with so many countries, much like the States, it can actually   Jason Hull (20:14) it can   actually, it puts manners on you quite quickly when you take a good grant because you realise...   Andrew Rhatigan (20:14) It puts manners on you quite quickly when you take it for granted, because you realize that this large   country that isn't Ireland, that doesn't have to love us the way it does, or doesn't have to embrace it the way it does, I suppose, engineers a wonderful experience for people to appreciate all things Irish, whether that be the connection to Ireland, the appreciation of having been here on holidays. And I suppose one of the things that is amazing every year is seeing that, I suppose, collection of nations that come together for a day that   Jason Hull (20:19) that isn't Ireland, that doesn't have to lovus the way it does, or doesn't have to embrace it the way it does, really, I suppose, engineers a wonderful experience for people to appreciate all the things Irish, whether that be the connection to Ireland, the appreciation of having been here on holidays. And I suppose one of the things that is amazing every year is seeing that, I suppose, collection of nations that come together for   a day that oftentimes people might overlook in general terms by virtue of holidays. But I think probably what it stands for is more that   Andrew Rhatigan (20:42) Oftentimes people might overlook in general terms by virtue of holidays, but I think it's probably what it stands for is more that camaraderie   openness. You know, Ireland has changed a lot in the last number of years. ⁓ And I suppose there is like everything there's always going to be the cheesy factor of people who, you know, do the kiss me I'm Irish and whatever else. But I would rather people embrace what it is we are as a very small country and they appreciate that. Like that's that's a phenomenal thing to me. And the fact that it just continues to grow each year and it's still quite amazing.   Jason Hull (20:49) I mean it's a popular thing. We wear green just to celebrate your   country.   You know, really kind of. So, help me understand this idea of this innovative approach that's saving investors 80 hours a month and retaining 10 % or more value in their property transactions. So, explain this to   Andrew Rhatigan (21:32) So oftentimes in Ireland, just to give you a backdrop as to how real estate agency works here, we have a very small number of buying agents. So let's say we're one of only, I would say between three and five buying agents in the entirety of Ireland. There may be more that I'm not aware of, but ones that would be more prominent. And when you look at how people tend to view a real estate transaction, it tends to be very DIY. So people in a residential setting, it's not a standard practice to...   Jason Hull (21:54) So people in a residential setting, it's not a standard practice   to hire a buying agent and then the buying agent splits the fee with the selling agent. Oftentimes you'd have someone that meets, let's say us, and they could say, oh, I have to pay you upfront before you buy me a house. I could just do it myself, much like some partners. Right. when we're working with people and the structure we've put together is we want people, especially at the level we work with, you know, they're investors, they're C-suite executives, they're ex-paths, high net worth.   Andrew Rhatigan (21:58) hire a buying agent and then the buying agent splits the fee with the selling agent. Oftentimes you could have someone that meets, let's say us, and they could say, I have to pay you upfront before you buy me a house. I can just do it myself, much like someone deciding to paint the garden gate. So when we're working with people and the structure we've put together is we want people, especially at the level we work with, know, they're investors, they're C-suite executives, they're ex-paths, high net worth.   They're busy building their own lives and their own, ⁓ their own vision of what they want in a different area of life. So essentially by understanding what people want, we then set about and do everything else for them. So we're searching on the ground. We're sending them deals. We're putting together an overview of what life and business and property potential is like on the ground while they're living life. And the idea being that they don't have to spend time communicating with eight or nine different agents to understand an area.   Jason Hull (22:23) They're busy building their own lives and their own vision of what they want in a different area of life. So essentially by understanding what people want, we then set it out and do everything else for them. So we're searching on the ground, we're sending them deals, we're putting together an overview of what life and business and property potential is like on the ground or their living life. And the idea being that they don't have to spend time communicating with eight or nine different agents to understand an area.   Andrew Rhatigan (22:51) we are the one single point of contact. So when   Jason Hull (22:51) We are the one single point of contact.   Andrew Rhatigan (22:53) someone signs with us, part of the deal they have to agree to is, and the reason we do it is we become the one person, the one conduit that they can ask a question to. And much like you said with your St. Patrick's Day question, there's no such thing as a dumb question. So when you have one person that's advocating for you, you could say to me, Jason, let's say, I've heard that such and such is this big issue in this part of the country. You ask us the question and then we find you the answer rather than.   Jason Hull (22:53) So when someone signs with us, part of the deal they have to agree to is, and the reason we do it is, we become the one person, the one conduit, that they can ask a question to. And much like you said with your St. Patrick's Day question, there's no such thing as a dumb question. So we have one person that's advocating for you. You can say to me, Jason, let's say, I've heard that such and such is this big issue in this part of the country. You ask us the question and then we find you the answer, rather than   Andrew Rhatigan (23:19) you asking someone else who maybe doesn't understand your situation, doesn't   Jason Hull (23:19) you asking someone else who maybe doesn't understand your situation.   Andrew Rhatigan (23:22) care enough to do the due diligence that you require. And a big part of why we do that is it simplifies the process for people. It provides one simple channel of communication, but it also buffers them from the market itself. Because if I'm looking at different deals, I might have 10 or 15 clients at any given time. And the agents who see me, they know me, they see me coming.   Jason Hull (23:22) doesn't care enough to do the due diligence that you require. And a big part of why we do that is it simplifies the process for people. It provides one simple channel of communication, but it also buffers them from the market itself. Because if I'm looking at different deals, I might have 10 or 15 clients at any given time. And the agents who see me, they know me, they see me   coming, and they know that I'm acting on behalf of someone who, as Bonafides, owns in place.   Andrew Rhatigan (23:44) and they know that I'm acting on behalf of someone who has a bona fides funds in place.   And it means that you're not going to get marketed to, you're not going to have someone that goes around me to contact Jason to try and do a deal. But it also means that when you're working with us, you've paid us to do what matters most for you and not try and do and deal with any agents. So we don't split fees with agents. No one can incentivize me to make it interesting. And I suppose where that freedom is for other people. And I suppose the education for people internationally is   Jason Hull (23:50) And it means that you're not going to get marketed to, you're not going to have someone that goes around me to contact Jason to try and do a deal. But it also means that when you're working with us, you paid us to do what matters most for you and not try and do a deal with any agent. So we don't split fees with agents. No one can incentivize me to make it interesting. And I suppose where that freedom is for other people and I suppose the education for people internationally   is they're paying me like a consultant in a surgery in a doctor's suite that's advocating for them.   Andrew Rhatigan (24:13) They're paying me like a consultant in a surgery or in a doctor's suite that's advocating for them and   not what they can get along the way. who can incentive, you know, make me the best offer and I'll throw them your way. No interest. And then when it comes to savings, what we do is the Irish property market is also very nuanced. So we don't have, you know, seven day closings or escrow accounts that have a binding contract in the space of a couple of days. Ireland's sales process can be very protracted.   Jason Hull (24:20) and not what they can get along the way. who can incentive, know, make me the best offer and I'll throw them your way. No interest. And then when it comes to savings, what we do is the Irish property market is also very nuanced. So we don't have, you know, seven day closings or escrow accounts that have a binding contract in the space of a couple of days. Ireland's sales process can be very protracted.   Andrew Rhatigan (24:42) So when we're involved and we understand the nuances of a sale, we can save people time and money because the seller has different motivations. One   Jason Hull (24:42) So when we're involved and we understand the nuances of the sale, we can save people time and money because the seller has different motivations.   Andrew Rhatigan (24:49) person may need time, so they may want less money, but more time in a property. Another person may have financial commitments that they have to adhere to, and we might be able to put something together. Other people, could be a bereavement where they have to offload a part of their property portfolio for tax reasons or for personal reasons. So because we can understand and get to the crux of a sale background quite quickly,   Jason Hull (24:50) One person may need time, so they may want less money but more time on the property. Another person may have financial commitments that they have to adhere to and might be able to put something together. Other people it could be a bereavement where they have to offload a part of their property portfolio for tax reasons or personal reasons.   So because we can understand and get the crux of the sale background quite quickly,   Andrew Rhatigan (25:10) I can save people time by telling them there's no point engaging in this because it's an illegal battle. It's going to take time. Or I might say, look, they're asking X, but they'll take Y. They just want Christmas in the house until we take over the sale. And by understanding that you can find that sweet spot and capitalize and save them the money where it matters most.   Jason Hull (25:10) I can save people time by telling them there's no point engaging in this because it's an illegal battle. It's going to take time. Or I might say, look, they're asking X, but they'll take Y. They just want Christmas in the house until they take off the sale. And by understanding that, you can find that sweet spot and capitalize and save them the money where it matters most. Got it. Yeah. So you're this advocate that helps them kind of balance the negotiation between time.   money, all the needs of the buyer and the seller and make sure that this is working. You're advocating for them. You're advocating for them. So what else would you like to share before we wrap up? And then how can people connect with you if they're interested in maybe hearing more about investing in this in Ireland market?   Andrew Rhatigan (25:57) Yeah, so first and foremost,   suppose one of the challenges when you're coming from abroad is when you're not on the ground, it's very difficult to be heard. And I think oftentimes people will be SEO and Googled within an inch of their life, looking at properties or looking at areas that are sold as a particular dream to them via this lovely screen that's curated through carefully utilized marketing platforms. And I suppose when people, if they're looking from the States, one big thing I would say is an agent in Ireland, if you, if you   Jason Hull (26:15) that's curated through carefully utilized marketing platforms. Right. Because when people, they're looking from the States, one big thing I would say is an agent in Ireland, if you   request details from an ad, isn't going to tell you it's not going to suit your needs. They're just going to sell you what they have for sale. Yeah. But oftentimes, when I encourage anyone when they're assessing Ireland, even if you're only paying a small fee to understand whether this is a market that's going to suit your needs or not, it's important to reach out to someone. It doesn't have to be me.   Andrew Rhatigan (26:25) request details from an ad isn't going to tell you it's not going to suit your needs. They're just going to sell you what they have for sale. And oftentimes, when I encourage anyone when they're assessing Ireland, even if you're only paying a small fee to understand whether this is this is a market that's going to suit your needs or not, it's important to reach out to someone. It doesn't have to be me. That   will give you a practical on the ground look at what your money is going to do for you and if Ireland is going to suit. And a prime example would be today we had an American client   Jason Hull (26:45) that would give you a practical on the ground look at what your money is going to do for you and if Ireland is going to suit and a prime example would be today we had an American client   Andrew Rhatigan (26:54) very successful and they went through an ad to find a property in a certain part of Ireland that was absolutely not going to suit their needs. And it was a very high value property, all things considered. And by spending time with us, we showed them what they could have without skin in the game. And   Jason Hull (26:55) very successful and they went through an ad to find a property in a certain part of Ireland that was absolutely not going to suit their needs and was very high value property all considered and by spending time with us we showed them what they could have without getting the game   Andrew Rhatigan (27:10) we completely changed the narrative. So they would have been buying in a very industrial area. It would have been very imposing. They wouldn't have been getting what Ireland is all about. And then   Jason Hull (27:11) and we completely changed the narrative. So they would have been buying in a very industrial area. It would have been very imposing. They wouldn't have been getting what Ireland is all about. Wow.   Andrew Rhatigan (27:20) by showing them this and giving them the time they needed to kind of transition almost like, you know what, if you're up a mountain to acclimatize, we've now agreed them a property as of today that saved them 450,000 on their budget and has totally flipped the script on where they thought they wanted to buy. So instead of buying industrial, they're   Jason Hull (27:21) By showing them this and giving them the time they needed to kind of transition, almost like, you know what, if you're going up a mountain to acclimatise, we've now agreed them a property as of today that saved them 450,000 on their budget and is totally fit to script on where they thought they wanted to buy. So instead of buying industrial.   Andrew Rhatigan (27:39) buying by the ocean. And instead of buying something that's brand new, that looks great today, they're buying something that's got great pedigree. And instead of just being sold something for the sake of transacting,   Jason Hull (27:39) they're buying by the ocean and instead of buying something brand new that looks great today, they're buying something that's got great pedigree. And instead of just being sold something for the sake of transacting,   Andrew Rhatigan (27:48) they've been guided to something that's going to suit their risk tolerance, their life now, and also the future if they chose to rent it in time to come. So that's just a simple example of what we do regularly.   Jason Hull (27:49) they've been guided to something that's gonna suit their risk tolerance, their life now, and also the future if they chose to invest in the time to come. So that's just a simple example of what we do regularly. Nice, yeah. So instead of being manipulated by marketing, thinking you're buying some beautiful Irish property in Ireland,   and you end up in an industrial area with something shiny and new that maybe isn't going to really suit your needs, then it'd be better to have a conversation with somebody that's real solid boots on the ground that are going to take a look at things and help you figure out what's actually going to help you reach your goals. Exactly. And people tend to reach out to   Andrew Rhatigan (28:23) Exactly. And people tend to reach out to me through   either RRE.ie that's our website. And we also, I'm very active on LinkedIn. So anyone that wants to connect or ask questions or book a zoom or a virtual coffee is more than happy to do so. I suppose a big part of what I love about my business and it's, it's, suppose as an entrepreneur as well, as much like meeting people like you is I love interesting conversation and meeting people with dynamic outlooks and personalities. And that kind of layers in what I do in property. But first and foremost, I love meeting people as well.   Jason Hull (28:28) and we'll.   It's, I suppose it's.   Fantastic. What's ⁓   the website again?   Andrew Rhatigan (28:54) It's RRE.ie   so R if I'm putting an American twang on it, it would be RRE.ie.   Jason Hull (28:58) Yeah.   R R E dot I E.   Andrew Rhatigan (29:01) IE so Rhatigan real estate and the dot IE is the Irish   domain version of dot com.   Jason Hull (29:08) IE, okay,   got it, okay. It couldn't get IR, I guess, so.   Andrew Rhatigan (29:12) No, it   was IE. We also have Rhatiganrealestate.com, but RRE would be the original website that we had.   Jason Hull (29:16) Okay.   Got it. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Cool. Andrew, great having you on the show. Very interesting to hear what's going on across the pond, as they say, and appreciate you being here and sharing your insight and your wisdom with us. right. Cool. So for those of you that maybe felt stuck or stagnant in your property management business, reach out to us at doorgroot.com. We would love to see if we could help you out. You can also join our free   Andrew Rhatigan (29:32) Absolute pleasure, delighted to be here.   Jason Hull (29:45) Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.  

Do you ever feel like your team doesn’t share the same vision for your property management company as you? How do you ensure your property management team is motivated and accountable without micromanaging them? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss leadership in property management and getting your team aligned with your vision. You’ll Learn [01:38] Your Business is Not a Democracy and Not a Dictatorship [11:14] Creating Accountability for Your Team [21:20] The Business Owner is the Captain of the Ship [28:34] How to Gain Clarity about Your Business and Team Quotables “If you give the majority in your business a vote to just make a decision about the business and they don't have vision or purpose that they believe in they're going to go towards what makes them more comfortable.” “If you have team members that reject accountability and transparency, they're stealing from you.” “Winners want to be seen and recognized.” “If people are not money motivated, but their only motivation for working for you is money, because they're not really inspired by you to follow you. They're not inspired by your values, by your vision, or by the mission of the company, then they're going to steal from you,” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) You have to be a leader worth following. You have to have a vision that's worth following and you have to have team members that you've selected that.   are the type of people that share your values that would buy into your vision, that do believe you're a leader worth following.   We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses,   helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, built hundreds more than that of websites. We run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the space. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world.   and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show.   All right. So our topic for today. Sarah was like, what should we talk about? was like, I don't know. What should we talk about? And she's like, well, something's frustrated me lately is.   So something that has come up actually twice, I'd say in the last two months. So a little bit more frequent recently is leadership in the business and what the business owner needs to do and what the team needs to do and how those two should interact. Okay. So today we're talking about leadership in property management, specifically being a leader in your   property management business. All right. So I was thinking about this and I was thinking about the, and I don't want to say names. Okay. If we give examples. Sure. Of course. Okay. Okay. All right. But they'll know if they hear it, good. Sorry. be good for them. So, yeah, so, you know, we were thinking, we were talking about leadership and, what, what, what was the story? You want to share the story?   Okay. Well, this is what you mentioned when I said, should we talk about? Yeah, this is what I mentioned. So there's a business owner that wants to grow the business and wants to grow the team and has a few new hires recently, which is great. And that will get him out of the operational piece, which is also great. And I think he was making the right moves until   this happened. And he had recently messaged us and he was going to be moving forward with a few different pieces in his business that we were going to be helping him with, especially with the strategic planning. And then we got a message that essentially said, Hey, we're going to kind of put that on hold. We're going to pause. We're going to take a step back. My team voted. My team voted.   and they voted against making these changes. Yeah. And I don't know how to nicely say it. So I guess I'll say it in the way that I know how to. Okay. For the love of God, don't let the team make decisions like that. So everyone, we were talking about it a little bit this morning and   the team running the business and doing the day-to-day things and handling tasks, especially the day-to-day tasks. Great. That's fantastic. That's what they're there for. They are there to support you. You are there to guide them. You are there to lead them. we, I feel like it's fitting that this is actually being recorded on Independence Day. And it's funny that I'm going to make this statement on Independence Day. This is   not a democracy. Yeah. This is a business. Yeah. And it's also not, as you mentioned, it's not a dictatorship. So it isn't, I'm going to tell you everything and you're just going to go do it. But it's also not, this is what we want. Let's vote and see if we're actually going to do it. So the team needs to look to a leader, one leader usually, to set the vision, to set the mission.   and then the team and the leader will fulfill that. Where it gets mucky is when we have the team trying to set the vision for the business or even sometimes with the business owner. Then it gets really, really hard because have you ever had even just a small group of people, if you have three people or four people even, and you go, let's go for lunch, where do you guys wanna go?   That can be a tough discussion sometimes. Well, I want Mexican and no, I don't like that. I just had that yesterday. I would rather Italian. I don't want something so heavy. So if such a simple decision can take a really long time and be complex like that, imagine how complex it would be to set the vision and the big goal for the business with the team, with everybody putting their input in.   Yeah, that's often called death by committee. yeah. Okay. So I was thinking about this and I was thinking, well, it's not a democracy. It's not a dictatorship. So I was thinking about this and I was, you know, the scripture came to mind where there is no vision that people perish. So I looked it up and I did some research and that's Proverbs 29 18 and the word vision, I guess, is a word.   that means like revelation or divine insight or inner guidance and The word perish I'm like does this mean to die? I'm asking chat GPT Like the people die if there is a vision that sounds dramatic and it said that word actually means like to like uncovered or to set loose basically like Getting rid of restraints or becoming undisciplined or becoming lazy or chaotic   And, or just focusing on more survival instead of, you know, purpose and vision. And the verse continues, it says, but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. And, know, the law really has to do with, basically it translates basically like you need to be motivated towards some goals. there needs to be vision.   otherwise if there aren't constraints or rules or principles to follow then it leads towards chaos and or laziness and so when your team Don't have vision They don't have vision back up.   Yeah, so this this law is kind of like divine or universal order there's there's order or there's chaos and without vision and without guidance and without boundaries and without rules People tend to gravitate towards the middle right towards laziness towards chaos   And so the team has to be motivated towards some goals. If they're not motivated towards some goals or towards your goals as a business owner, they're not a culture fit. And they can't follow you and you can't lead them. And in order to lead them, you have to have goals. You have to have like provide some purpose. You and. So I thinking about this and I said, if it's not a democracy and not a dictatorship, what would it be?   And I guess it would be more like a benevolent theocracy of vision. That's what Chad GPT came up with. Basically a purpose driven monarchy, right? So there's a king, there's a queen and people believe in this person and they choose to follow and trust this person. That's really what a business is better designed to be. Now, why is that? Because democracy, if you give the majority in your business a vote to just make a decision about the business and they don't have   Vision or purpose that they believe in they're going to go towards what makes them more comfortable What makes them makes their job easier? It's not going to be what makes you more money. It's not gonna be it's not going to be what grows the business Typically, it's not going to be something that makes them uncomfortable It's not going to be something that adds more work for them Even if it's not actually more work if they perceive it as being more work So let's think about this not gonna do it   Yeah, so some business owners think, well, I'll motivate my team. I'll get them all focused on what I want. I'll get them focused on more money. And so they might do something like profit sharing or like bonus structures or giving them a split of revenue. The problem is entrepreneurs, most people are not like you and they don't really care that much about money. So money doesn't really motivate them. I know this is like a big blind spot for entrepreneurs. so profit sharing, money motivation, that doesn't work.   with the average person, like most people, most team members. Once their basic needs are met financially, more money's not gonna increase performance, it actually makes it worse. They get more comfortable, they get more lazy, they feel guilty sometimes for taking the money, and then they turn around and they're not gonna not take it, so they have to justify taking it, so they have to make you, the king or queen, the bad guy. Well, they're kind of crappy, so I deserve this.   and they have to come up with a reason why they deserve it when they don't feel deep down that they do. And so their performance actually gets worse in a lot of instances. So I think this is a good moment to pause and talk about how to make performance better instead of worse because we don't want that. So if you're looking for something that will make the performance of the team and the day to day of the team and the business a little bit better and easier, you're going to want to hear this.   All right, so many of you tell me that maintenance is probably the least enjoyable part of being a property manager and definitely the most time consuming. But what if you could cut that workload up to 85 percent? All right, this is from our sponsor. That's exactly what Vendoroo has achieved. They've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all your maintenance tasks from initiating work orders and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting. This AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee.   learning your preferences and executing tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and never quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well-deserved break. Over half the room at last year's Door Girl Live conference signed up with Vendoroo right there and then. They did. A year later, they're not just satisfied, they're raving about how Vendoroo has transformed their business.   Don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with Vendoroo. Visit vendoroo.ai/doorgrow today and make this the last maintenance hire that you'll ever need. All right. That was a very well done transition into our sponsor. I was like, Ooh, where can I plug that? Okay. So there you go. So back to what we were talking about. All right. So, can we talk also about some key differences between   what the visionary does and what the team does. Just for those of you that are like, I feel like maybe I should get my team's input and I should put things to a vote. I don't see what's wrong with a vote. I don't know why that would be a bad idea. That sounds fair to me. So, mean, we do get input from our team. This is how we've built and wired up our planning system called DoorGrow OS.   Which ironically was the thing that they voted against. I know, yeah. Why? Because DoorGrow OS creates accountability. And so if you have team members that reject accountability and transparency, they're stealing from you. Probably. Very likely. Always. And I'll explain this.   Because winners want to be seen and recognized. Winners want to be seen and recognized. And that's what DoorGrow OS is. It's a recognition system. It's a goal system. It's a system for moving the business forward. And if your team members are not motivated to benefit the business, that means they're not a culture fit. Then they don't share your values and they will either just do the bare minimum, which is stealing from you. They will subtly sabotage or resist the things that you want to do like DoorGrow OS.   Right? Like growing the business, like adding doors, which is stealing from you or they will actually steal time, or cash. It's not always stealing from you to just not want to grow the business, but what it is, is it's killing your opportunity. So now you have like lost opportunity costs. So imagine if you could have been the dominant company in your market. Imagine if you could have been the company that has 1200 doors.   and because the team didn't want to do more work, you stay stuck at 250 doors. How sad would that be? How many clients would you be doing a disservice to by not growing your business? How many tenants would suffer with bad property managers? Because we all know there's a lot of those. Bad landlords and bad property managers because you and your team didn't want to grow your business.   So my thinking is this, if people are not money motivated, but their only motivation for working for you is money, because they're not really inspired by you to follow you. They're not inspired by your values, by your vision, or by the mission of the company, then they're going to steal from you, either just through being lazy, but they're going to gravitate towards that laziness or chaos. And if you don't give them vision and they're great people, you're creating that.   That's what you're creating in your business. And so I think that's why it's important. If you feel uninspired and unmotivated and not excited about your business, your goals are shitty goals. That's the problem. Your goal. You have no real vision. You're operating from within your current level of thinking, which is not vision. That means you have a weak, limited goal and it's not getting your brain to think outside the box or think differently. You need to   start creating some impossible goals. And that's probably a whole episode we could talk about. But you need and this is something that we were getting clients to doing and focusing on right now. And they're hitting some really amazing targets and getting some really amazing accomplishments. But you have to start giving your brain a different goal as a tool to think outside the box. And that's your job as a leader is to come up with a bigger vision that makes everyone feel uncomfortable because it's impossible. So it gets everyone to start to   think differently. It helps you find a different path than the current grind that you're on. Because that current path is like a slow death for entrepreneur. It's not, it's linear, it's difficult. takes, there's too many steps. You've had goals for years that you probably haven't hit. And if you have been hitting them, it's because you have a big enough vision and your team members then can be excited and believe in you. And so you got to give them something to believe in.   That's how you become that benevolent theocracy of vision. So and I think that there is a key difference between the business owner setting the vision and the goals and the mission and getting buy-in from the team and having the right team to make sure that we can fulfill that versus allowing the team to say, well, we don't   really want to grow the business. We don't want to get to a thousand doors. That would be insane. That would be so much work. We have 250 doors right now and I'm busy all day long. Oh my God, you want me to get to a thousand? Why would I do that? So we have to remember that there are key differences between a business owner, an entrepreneur and a team member. And now neither one is good or bad. I'm not saying, hey, team members are bad or entrepreneurs are bad.   Neither one is good or bad. It's just that a business needs both of those roles because your team members remember that they are employees. They are not entrepreneurs. So they will not think like entrepreneurs because they're not. the four reasons that Jason talks about for starting a business.   they're a lot less concerned with those than we are as entrepreneurs. And anyone who has ever owned or started a business, you know you're a little bit weird. You think a little bit differently than most other people do. So you've got team members who do not think like you. That's why they didn't start a business. That's why they're working for someone else. And then we're asking those people to create the vision and the mission for the company.   It's not going to work out. It's just not, they don't think the same way that you think. You as a visionary, you will think, hey, this is what we can do. This is what I want to do. This is my whole dream for the business. And team members, they might see it. They might see it from you and believe in it, but very rarely will they go, hey, you know what we should do?   What if we did this business owner? If you've got team members like that, congratulations. You've got either entrepreneurs or intrapreneurs on your team, which is very rare. But most of the time, the team members are going to gravitate towards comfort.   They don't want the stretch. They don't want the extra work. They don't want the challenge. It's scary. Entrepreneurs are risk takers just by nature. We are willing to do the things that other people are not willing to do. So if we ask our team to vote or ask our team to figure out, what should we do with the company?   They're not going to think the same way that you think and they're generally going to gravitate towards Comfort well, hey, we're good right now. Like I don't think anything has to change. Let's just keep doing what we're doing Right. We don't want to hurt our level service. We don't want to lose our clients. Like let's keep things status quo Yeah, and if we do more If we get more doors now, we have to do more work Yeah, they're generally how exciting is that gonna be?   Yeah, I would love to triple my work. That would be amazing. Definitely triple my work. Yes, I'm for that. Said no one ever. Except for maybe an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think, your team needs to be people that value accountability and they value transparency because they want to be seen and they want to be recognized. If they don't want to be seen and they don't want to be recognized, then they really, they want to steal from you.   Not in an intentional way sometimes, but sometimes intentionally. They will basically, like I said earlier, do the bare minimum, sabotage or steal time. And sometimes they steal money because they just, they don't have the same values as you. So, you know, it's not about having like control. It's not about control. It's about clarity, clarity of purpose. It's not about rules.   It's about there being resonance. Like they resonate with it. It's not about votes. It's about values. Right? And the vote thing just, it's so shocking to me. If we have one entrepreneur and then even two team members, majority rules is the team members. Yeah. The team can outvote the entrepreneur. What the hell kind of business are you setting up? I'm so sorry, but seriously, what kind of business are you setting up?   Yeah, get around five other entrepreneurs and then have them vote what you should do. Do that. That would be a different vote than your team. And if your team is going, Oh my God, you're insane. That's not a bad thing. Now, if they go, Oh my God, you're insane. There's no way we're doing that. I'm I'm nope. I'm not doing it. Then you probably have the wrong team. They don't believe in you. They don't trust you.   They don't believe in your vision. okay if your team thinks you're crazy. Our team thinks we're crazy all the time. And we warn them, we warn them. We came back from Mexico and we said, okay, just so you guys know, we've got some crazy shit planned. It's gonna be insane. So buckle up, brace for impact. It's gonna happen. If you're here, you're on the roller coaster and it's going for a ride, baby.   And they know, and they know they all laughed because they're like, okay, Sarah and Jason are doing it again. Here they go. All right. And they think we're a little bit nuts and that's okay. But they're still excited about it. They don't, they don't go, my God, this is terrifying. I don't want to do this. No, not at all. It's okay if they think you're a little bit nuts, as long as they're bought into the big goal. But very rarely are they going to come up with a big goal themselves. Yeah.   Like team members that are part of big goals are way happier. But yeah, it's harder. But then they felt like when you do hard things and you accomplish things, you feel better about yourself. So they have greater self-worth. I mean, look at your team members. They look like lazy people. Like you can usually tell if your team members are lazy or unmotivated or whether they're excited and inspired to like move the business forward. So an analogy, you mentioned   on our walk this morning that when we were talking a bit about this. was a good analogy. The analogy of the ship. boat. Sometimes I come up with this stuff. Yeah. I don't even know where it comes from. And so this is I was thinking about this. And so this is what I wrote down earlier when I was preparing for this. it's my it's my thing. You're not going to share my analogy. And OK, you do yours and I'll share my version. You you can share your version. OK, so the way that I put it this morning.   Thanks for the reminder, by the way. The way I put it this morning is think of it like a ship. OK, so the business owner needs to be the captain of the ship. What happens when there are several captains? It's hard. We need to go this way. No, we need to go this way. No, we're supposed to be going northeast. No, we're not. Right. It gets it gets messy. One captain of the ship. What does the captain do? The captain is the one who is.   creating the plan and keeping things on track and saying, this is where we're going, this is what we're doing, and I'm leading. Now the team, they're not captains. The team, what happens on a ship, if you think about it, is the captain the only crew member on the ship? No, absolutely not. That would also be a disaster. So if there's just the captain and nobody else, there is a whole crew.   behind the scenes that are doing the things to make the ship work and keep this ship safe. So they're doing things like, you know, working underneath and they're making sure there's enough fuel. Back in the days they used to like load the coal. They're making sure that the ship isn't sinking. They're doing all of the things that the captain isn't doing or doesn't want to do or can't do, but they work in tandem. They work together.   in order to make sure that the ship is safe, moving forward, not sinking, and reaches its destination. And the different people have different roles in that. But imagine if you asked the crew to come up and be the captain. Imagine if you asked four crew members to come up and be co-captains.   Disaster and then imagine if you took the captain and said you're gonna go below the deck and you're gonna do all of that work Well, I don't know how to do that. I know how to steer the ship too bad figure it out. What happens disaster So you need to work together in tandem, but the visionary entrepreneur needs to be the one who is the captain So I like this analogy of the captain because the captain's goal is to protect the ship   It's to protect everybody on board. It's to keep everything moving forward. So if you think back in the day, the captain would navigate and he would navigate by the stars because they're out in the middle of the ocean. And so he had the vision. He had the maps. He had the access to the resources and the perspective, the vision that the crew didn't have. And the crew does not vote where to go. Sure don't. They're not voting. Nope.   Like, well, I vote we turn left here. I don't know. It like a good direction, but the captain's like, but guys is doing, I've got the maps. Like, yeah, we think we should put it to a vote. We just, you know, but I think we should go that way. So they follow the captain out of trust too, because the captain has vision. And if they don't, they walk the plank. So you fire them and you get them out of the business. All right. So, okay. And then also I think what I will say too is I think this is a   Man, sometimes I'm smarter than I even realize. This is such a good analogy because what happens if and when the ship sinks? Who goes down with the ship, guys? It's the captain. Does the crew go down with the ship intentionally? Not usually. They're trying to jump off. They're trying to, they're like, get me out of here. I need to save myself. Where are the rafts? Where are the lifeboats? Where, how do I get off of here? The captain does not abandon the ship.   The captain goes down with the ship if it goes down. So since the captain is the one who would go down with the ship, they need to be the one who's ultimately responsible for it. And your business is the same. Your team members are not going to go down with your business. They're going to hop ship. They're going to ⁓ I quit. I need to go work for somebody else because this is clearly not working. As the entrepreneur, you don't have that same ability.   you get to figure it out. And for that reason, it's gotta be you. It does not need to be you who's doing the day-to-day work, but it does need to be you who's setting that vision for everybody else on the team. And so that doesn't mean you don't get good ideas, you don't get feedback from everybody else. Somebody may have a better idea than you in certain scenarios, but that's, that's your, your leading and you're leading with vision, which means you have, you're the one that has set.   big impossible goals that get everybody out of their current limited prison in their own mind of thinking. so groupthink isn't vision, it's mediocrity. I'll say that again, groupthink isn't vision, it's mediocrity. And so if you're allowing groupthink to take over, then it's gonna go towards the middle, right? Like the bell curve in elementary school or in grade school.   Right. It's going to go towards middle, not towards exceptional. It's going to gravitate towards the mediocrity. And this, I, this is something I thought about before we started recording that I thought was really important. It's not enough just to be a leader and to have vision. You have to be a leader worth following. You have to have a vision that's worth following and you have to have team members that you've selected that.   are the type of people that share your values that would buy into your vision, that do believe you're a leader worth following. And so being a leader worth following is not about putting a gun to anyone's head. It's not about threatening to fire them. It's about creating a vision and bringing in the right people that can see that they want to be inspired. They want to be part of something bigger. They want to be part of something that's having a positive impact. They have a reason for being there that's bigger.   than just getting a paycheck. They can get a paycheck in a lot of different ways. And most of them aren't money motivated. So they need a job or a path that can give them something beyond just money and that's purpose. And that's what your vision does. It provides purpose. And so your vision needs to be bigger than just getting a buck out of your clients. And that's why we get into this stuff in our, we call purpose secrets in our DoorGrow Academy.   that we coach clients on because that's the actual product. The actual product in a property management business is not property management. It's you the business owner and your unique vision and the unique team and systems that you have created around that. That's what makes you different than every other management company. Otherwise, if you're just a management company and all you sell is the property management and that's the product they might and everyone does the same thing. They might as well just go with the cheapest company.   Cause you haven't really set yourself apart. So the thing that people are lacking usually to in order to do this is clarity. So recently we built something really cool. Then we excited to tell people about. Jason did it. Jason built it. Okay. He's like, we did it. All right. I built it. So Jason built it. Jason's nerdy. being DoorGrow so, um, yeah. So   Basically, we built this clarity assessment because the one thing you're lacking, if you don't have vision, you don't have good goals, you don't have good leadership, you're lacking clarity. You're spending plenty of time in your business. You're taking plenty of action, but you're not making progress. You're lacking clarity. Without clarity, we go in the wrong direction. Just like the ship. We end up in the wrong place. It's not reaching our goals. Without clarity, we take the wrong actions. We do the wrong growth strategies. We make a ton of mistakes.   And so if you're not making the progress you want, the one thing you need is clarity. And so I want to help you get this. And I can't talk to everybody all the time. And so I created this clarity assessment. It's a really cool form. I built it out. It's got a video for each step to guide you through clarity in what matters to you, what you want, why it met, like how it connects to emotion.   Because if it doesn't, if your goals don't emotionally matter, you'll never achieve them. Yeah. You there's what you want to get away from. There's what you want to move towards. What's your ideal outcome and what emotionally, how do you connect that? Cause otherwise you won't be inspired or motivated enough to take action or do it or to inspire your team to do it because you have a weak goal or you have a weak purpose and you're not really connected to it. And so you've been lacking clarity. That's what you've been lacking. If you haven't been making the progress that you want to make clarity is what lights you on fire.   So you go through our clarity assessment and to get to it, you go to doorgrow.com/clarity You go to that. There's a form there. Watch the video first for the instructions. This is important. Don't go cheap on this because this is for you. I already know our stuff works. I don't need to like convince myself.   I already know that you need or could benefit from what we have. We've helped hundreds of people. You need to get clarity first on what you think is your problem and how it emotionally impacts you and all this. Go through the clarity assessment and based on your questions, it will give you a free training. If you go through the whole thing, it'll take you a little bit. If you go through the whole thing and you go deep into this, you'll get a much better outcome. And then...   You will think you know what your problem is maybe and how you're connected to it. And then I'm going to give you a training related to what you had selected is the issue. And I'm going to blow your mind and I'm going to share with you why what you think is the problem is not the actual problem. So you're going to get more clarity in that second step. I'm going to give you a free training related to the myth or the belief that you have that you think is holding you back. And then after you do that, then you can go to our video of me explaining our entire system.   our program, what's included, what it costs, everything. You don't have to get on a sales call. You don't have to talk to anybody in order to get all of this information. More clarity on how DoorGrow could then benefit you in a path to get beyond your current limited thinking and your current path that has not been working. So clarity assessment to get clarity, then training to get greater clarity on what the actual issue is, and then a path for the future.   And then you can schedule your onboarding call with us if you feel that's appropriate. And so you can go through all this and do this and us at DoorGrow will be talking with you soon. And some of you will move through the fast lane and go through this. And some of you, my team will probably need to follow up and keep you accountable and say, Hey, did you do this next step and do this? You know, and you'll be like, well, I'm really busy, but I'm working on it. You know, but if this matters to you, then you will identify that during the clarity assessment.   and it needs to matter. Otherwise, why do it? If it doesn't matter, then you don't need to grow. Just give up. It doesn't matter. But if it matters, you need to figure out why it matters. You need to get really connected to that. And that clarity assessment is going to help you do it. Cool. So DoorGrow dot com slash clarity. I'm really excited about this. I've had some people go through it. Lady went through it yesterday. First time went through all this stuff in and and joined the program.   And so I'm excited because that's going to allow us to benefit more people. I don't have to do hours and hours of calls trying to convince you of all this. And you get free trainings and free knowledge. We had one client go through some of our free stuff like this, came to our jumpstart session because we onboard people in person as part of the program. And he had added 41 doors just from our free stuff, just from our free stuff. He's like, I tried some of the things I thought I could do based on what you told me.   And he added 41 doors. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you've been listening to this podcast and haven't yet added doors. Yeah. Our program's already paid for it for him, like forever, like residually, because he's making so much money, extra money now. So our program costs nothing, by the way, if you do what we tell you to do, you make more money and that's called an ROI people, right? There's a return on investment and you make more and you continue to make more and more.   than what you pay us. And that's the ultimate win. We wanna see you succeed. So if you felt stagnant or stuck and you wanna take your business to the next level, you can reach out to us at doorgroot.com. Also, you can join our free Facebook community. It's just for property management business owners. We reject 60 to 70 % of the applicants.   So it's a curated group at doorgrowclub.com. Go to doorgrowclub.com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. It helps us help more people. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.  

Peter Roisman, founder of REV Leasing and former sports agent, shares insights on crafting high-performing leasing teams in property management. He discusses the destructive impact of high turnover and the necessity of investing in staff development. Roisman emphasizes the importance of hiring skilled professionals who excel in sales and understand client needs. He critiques the neglect of leasing roles amidst market challenges, advocating for strategic training to enhance overall performance and drive revenue in property management.

For Jason’s 48th birthday, we held an in-person sales workshop event for property management business owners in Orlando. What he didn’t know was that his wife, daughter, team, and clients had a surprise for him! In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss what Jason has learned in the last year in business, relationships, and life, and what he’s looking forward to in the next year. You’ll Learn [01:48] Reflecting on a Year of Innovation at DoorGrow [07:36] A Year of Relationship Growth  [16:27] The Power of Being Able to Ask for Help  [22:10] Shifting Your Beliefs and Setting Goals Quotables “Because boundaries are about setting your locus of control, not trying to control somebody else.” “If you have a partner that's growing, if you're with them, you're tethered to this roller coaster that's on the move.” “Leadership is about inspiring others to be willing to support and follow you.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) Yeah, no big deal. Just a bunch of property managers about to take over the whole industry. That's what I feel like us and our clients are really going to do is we're going to dominate the entire industry.   Hi everybody. So I'm Jason Hull and this is Sarah Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow and the COO of DoorGrow, co-owners. And this is the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We...   have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry.   At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. All right, now let's get into the show. All right, so today is   June 30th, which is my birthday. So some of you may see this later. You may see the recording later. We'll broadcast it live later, because that's what we do now. But it's my birthday today. And so we were thinking like, Happy birthday to me. So I am 48 years old. Sarah surprised me. We came out to Orlando.   to do a sales training event to teach our clients on the new model of selling stuff that we've been doing, to teach them my framework, the golden bridge formula, which I am now just starting to work on writing a book about that I think could revolutionize sales. And she surprised me by having my daughter, Madi who's our head of client success, be here.   and our clients be here the first day we got in, which I didn't expect. And they said surprise and they surprised me and we all hung out and it was very cool. And so I appreciate that. And so we were thinking like, what should we talk about today? my suggestion was let's talk about the last year and how things are different for you and then what you're hoping for in the next year.   So yeah, reflecting, so we actually do our planning year at DoorGrow starting on July 1st, not because of my birthday on June 30th, but because we want to offset it by two quarters because kind of trying to reach end of the year goals and hit your goals and strive towards success and winning as a company doesn't really work out super well at during the holidays when everybody's focused on family and Christmas and stuff like that. And so we offset it.   And so that we're hitting the end of our planning year in the middle of the summer, which really allows us to focus on things, get excited about new things and our upcoming plan. And so this is the end of our planning year. And it's also end of the next year of my life here on the earth. And so this is a good opportunity to reflect just on like what have we accomplished in the last year. And we've made a lot of changes at DoorGrow, so   What are some of the things that we've accomplished at DoorGrow in the last year? I think one of the big things that we did is we added more to the onboarding and now we're doing some of the onboarding with clients in person. So it used to all just be, you know, kind of talk with us and meet with us on Zoom and talk with us on Telegram and, you know, watch some courses on DoorGrow Academy.   And there is still all of that. And then of course you get your one-on-one meetings with coach for the first couple of weeks and we walk you through everything and make sure that you have access and make sure you know where to find everything and that you can log in and you know how to use it. And then there's another part of it that we bring you guys out to the North Austin, Texas area and we do a one day deep dive into your business. And that that's been a big shift.   We have been doing that for just about a year now Yeah, it's really there's something we've noticed and I call it the real bubble there's this bubble or this perception that we have to burst that the internet zoom calls videos like this are not real life and We have to break that or burst that bubble and connect them to us being real people because we're actually real people   Like you can fist bump us, hug us, give us a high five, give us a hug. Like we're real people. But until we pass that barrier with our clients, we've noticed they don't get as good of results. They don't absorb the content the same because this is not real life in their mind. So videos in DoorGrow Academy. so yeah, the in-person onboarding has been a really big deal in allowing us to really get to know clients better, to connect with them.   get people breakthroughs, usually we can offset the cost of the whole program, maybe even in that first in-person session. So that can be pretty powerful. And it's really increased our retention rate. It's really allowed us as coaches to keep clients more engaged and have them stay a lot longer. Yeah, and I think it makes us a lot more accessible to people. Because until you meet us in person, it's like, you can message us any time.   Sometimes people feel a little weird about doing that. Sometimes they don't know, am I allowed to do that? Or should I reach out? Or no, I don't want to bother them with that. But it's just so much more personal once you meet us in person. then it's like there's so much more of a deeper connection and relationship. And then people go, ⁓ yeah, they'll know the answer. I can talk to them at any point. And then they really start to leverage that resource.   So yeah, we've spent the last several years making a lot of improvements to our program. And I think the last several years, this last year, we've really put a lot of attention on lead generation, on focusing on how to actually grow our business now that we've got the program even more well dialed in and figuring out how can we reach more people. And ⁓ even just recently, we got some really strong breakthroughs in how I think we could help a lot more people.   a lot more quickly and just optimizing our sales process, which I think is just, I'm really excited about. Like I'm really excited about the stuff that we're rolling out and that we're doing at DoorGrow. Personally, man, I feel like this has been a big year of growth for me personally. A lot of changes. I feel like our relationship has evolved a lot. Like it's been, you know, I think coming into a new relationship.   and we've been together, we've known each other for total maybe what did you say today, six years? He's listening, yeah, almost six years. Almost six years. I'm bad with dates, stuff like that. yeah, almost six years. so, yes, we've known each other for a little while, but I feel like I'm just now starting to get clarity on some of the things, my own issues, some of the things that have helped me back, some of my own insecurities, some of my own challenges.   This year has been a year of me really learning and growing in relationship. I feel like quite a bit as well. But I think one of the things I've noticed in you, especially over the last year, is you   you shift much more easily into leadership at home with the family. Okay. Yeah. I think I've put a lot of study into the masculine and the feminine and just recognizing my role as being a leader and being willing to lead. And I think that allows you to feel lot safer and calmer.   in the relationship. yeah, yeah, for sure. Which also makes me feel a lot safer and calmer in the relationship. And so I think there's a lot of men that you see out there complaining about women. You see a lot of women complaining about men. And I think really, I really do believe that men really are meant to lead in that. And that leading doesn't mean controlling. It doesn't mean bossing people around.   Leadership is about inspiring others to be willing to support and follow you. And I think men are meant to be leaders. Like if they don't step out and be leaders, I think it's men's responsibility. And so if men are complaining about women, well, it's your fault guys. And if women are complaining about men, you're right. It's the men's fault. That's how I view it. Women, women. So it's your fault no matter what, men. Yes. Like, yeah.   Because if men really stand up and they really lead and they're meant to be leaders and they're not waiting for women to change and trying to hold their breath till women change and they change, I believe that if they lead and they take responsibility and they work on themselves, women in their life, if the women love them, will follow and they will allow these men to step into leadership because that allows them to feel safer and to calm down and to like...   relax into the feminine. And so I think for a lot of men it's about shattering their own feminine frame and there's a great book on that I read that really kind of changed things for me that is called Shattering the Feminine Frame by Jerr J-E-R-R. I thought that was a brilliant book. I've given it to some guy friends and that were kind of in that feminine frame of that. And the feminine frame for guys is that they're trying to please, they're trying to please their partner, please their girlfriend, please their spouse.   They're trying to please everybody else. And in that state of pleasing, they become unsafe to everyone around them. They're not leading. And it's not appealing or generally attractive to most women when a guy's in that state. So that's something that I've shifted more into in stepping more into the masculine and stepping more into leadership. And   The thing I think that's key that I understood from that book and his other book, which is called The Wall Speaks by Jerr, J-E-R-R, this philosopher. The other basic principle is that men really need to believe in themselves. Like if they believe in themselves, a lot of times men were trying to get belief from our partner. Like I love when Sarah believes in me. It's everything. Like men are constantly trying to get women to believe in them. It's the thing we crave.   However, if a man is always trying to place his locus of control for belief and power in his woman, then the problem is she now feels unsafe and she's way less likely to believe in him. And so I think one of things I've realized is that I have to believe in myself. I have to believe in me first. Even if it's unrealistic or crazy, I have to have unrealistic.   impossibly amazing self-belief. And if I believe in myself, then everyone around me believes in me too. And if they don't, it doesn't matter anymore. If I believe enough in myself, either everyone else will go, my gosh, this person's amazing. I believe in them too. I want to follow this person. I want this person to lead me, they won't and you won't care because your self-belief is so strong.   And so I think it's really important for guys to develop that self-belief and not try to put that onto their partner. Because that's a really big burden for me to throw on your shoulders. Well, and I think for women, I can't speak for all women, but for myself, it's really hard to have belief in someone or something that isn't confident in themselves. So if I'm more confident in you than you are in you, there's a problem.   At least I do, like we can tell. We can just tell. yeah. Women can smell weakness because women are kind of born from birth, like having to deal with fear and having to deal with the dangers of society and men and difficulty things and whatever. Like men, we're not afraid to walk down the street generally.   We're not worried about somebody hurting us. Like we're generally the stronger half of the species, you know? And we just, don't have that mindset. We're not like looking for safety in a lot of instances. The thing we're looking for, physical safety, what we are looking for a lot of times is emotional safety. And we try to create that by pleasing. And maybe if I'm nice enough, she will be kind and it usually works out the opposite way.   because women want to test our strength and they want to test us emotionally, see if we are stable enough to support them and to handle them. And if we do, we kind of pass that unconscious test that they throw at us that they now can lean into us and feel safe and go, this man is a rock. This man is stable. I can have my feminine emotional waves of things going on and he is still that stable grounded rock that I can, know.   I can lean on. So that's been a big deal for me is to kind of take back that locus of control because I'm on my third marriage. This is like, I spend a lot of years thinking the game was happy wife, happy life, and I have to please my partner. And that becomes a really uncomfortable game if you have an unpleasable partner. And a lot of times by trying to please your partner, you end up doing the opposite. Like it makes them feel less and less safe and less and less pleased. And they want you to just step up and lead and plan some date nights and like...   make some decisions and let them actually relax and be in the feminine occasionally, right? And Sarah has to step into her masculine a lot in business and in work. And so I think being able to come home and being able to sometimes with me relax into the feminine is probably feels good. I don't know. Yeah, there are times and I think in every relationship you can kind of figure out what are the things that each person prefers to handle.   So for me, there are certain things that even if he did it, I would still want to go back and probably redo it or there would be things that I would have to confirm or check on because I wanted exactly a certain way. And if it's not, you know, exactly the way that I pictured it in my head, then I'm just not going to be satisfied. And then I'm going to feel like man, I should have just done it myself. So if you have those things and it can be anything, you just kind of have to figure out, what are the things that each partner wants to do?   and really what are the things that each partner can rely more on the other one for. Like every time we travel, my brain would not be able to handle it if he handled the travel details. Like booking the dogs and booking the hotels or the Airbnb, like where we're at right now, the Airbnb, or getting the flights and figuring out rental cars and all of the things. I just, I...   First all, it's fun for me to do that. And second of all, I wanted a very specific way. There's a right side of the airplane for me to sit on. It happens to be the right side. So if he books the ticket and then he puts me on the left side of the airplane, it's not that it's wrong, but it's sort of wrong. By the way, I upgraded our flights on the way home. And I got you an aisle seat. And I'm next to you.   because I know you love that and we're on the right side of the play. Okay, so you did it the right way. That's good. So there you go. So part and you know, part of that is also getting to really know and care about your partner. Like I take a lot of notes. I've got a lot of notes in my notes file. I have a whole folder in my notes app on my iPhone called Sarah. So I think I have like 80 notes in there. Yeah, that's how complex you are. So yeah, because I study her because you know, I want to win the game.   win the game of marriage and of life, but part of winning the game is not just being a pleaser and trying to please all the time. It's also recognizing my own boundaries and my own needs emotionally and being willing to ask. That's been a hard thing for me. That's really hard for you, which is so interesting because I don't feel like that's something that I struggle with. What I struggle with, I struggle with asking for help. I am not good at asking people for help.   because the way I grew up, it was viewed as weakness. If you need help, it's because you're weak. If you need help, it's because you don't know how to do it. If you need help, it's because you're less than. You're not good enough, you're not enough, you're not smart enough, you're not strong enough. It's whatever it is. So for me, it's so hard to ask for help. So my ways of asking for help are instead of directly asking or especially nicely asking, the way that most people would say,   Hey, could you please help me with this thing? Like I can't, I just, I can't seem to bring myself to ask that way. So I'll start to do something and then hope that somebody picks up on the cues that I'm giving, like sighing, like, like I'll wait. There was like a big, you know, case of water that I'm carrying. Like I'll carry everything else or I'll try, like try to go pick up the water and can I do it myself? Yes, of course I can.   But it's nice when your partner goes, hey, you know what? Do want me to help you with that? I'm like, yes, yes, I do. Because then I didn't have to ask. So I'm not good at asking for help, but you're not generally good at asking for what you want, which is really interesting. Because when I want something, I'm very good at just saying, and I don't generally ask, I just state it. It's more of a statement. I want this, I want that, I don't want this, I want this. So I'm very good at saying, this is what I want. I'm not great at asking for help, but you're...   really not great at asking for what you want. Well I think part of that is I grew up in this really conservative religious culture in which you were kind of the the right way of being was to self-sacrifice and to serve others and do it wasn't about what you want it was about taking care of everybody else and doing what God wants and what others want and it was not about what you want. And so I think that that   But if you don't ever ask for what you want or do things or try to get what you want out of life, then you end up depleted. You end up miserable. You end up frustrated. You end up wondering why nobody cares about you and other people might. They just can't serve you or reciprocate or benefit you if you don't ask them for what you want. And I mean, you know, it's it's so simple that sometimes I make such a big deal about it. But if I just ask you for something.   You're just like, okay, and then I get what I want. And it's, it know it's like magic, it's crazy. I know, it can be that simple. It's really weird when you ask for someone and then you get the thing that you asked for. I know, and then asking for help is difficult for you, but it's the secret thing for like, for women. Like, I have to ask somebody to help me do a thing that I should be fully able to do by myself. So especially if you're an attractive woman, it's so easy. You don't even have to ask for help.   You can, if you ask for help, everybody will give it to you. But if you just state how you feel about something, the person around you that cares will just step in. Like guys, we wanna be the hero. Like if she just says, my gosh, these water bottles are so heavy. Like I can tell she's feeling that away about them. Then I would just be like, my gosh, let me take care of this. Like I'll just step right in. Like that's the magnetic energy of women.   man it'd be so nice if these water bottles were just put away. That's a little obvious, right? It's like my way of asking. That's a really obvious way of doing it. It'd be so nice if I didn't have to do at you like, really? Okay, I can take care of this. Yeah, but see, there's a way that you can do it, right? That makes me feel honored and like, and there's a way that makes me feel nagged, right? Like if you were like,   I'll get the water bottles myself. I'm like, my gosh, I'll take home and and then I'm like Whatever she is So then yeah, so then I'm like that but then if she was like, my gosh, these are so heavy who can help me You know, I'm like, ⁓ damn's a little distress. Here comes your nine shining armor. I got it I'll take these water bottles   do with this water. so heavy. Let me come help you. But even if that's not real life, don't know real life. If women share, if they have a man that actually pays attention to them and cares about them, if she shares how she's feeling about something, not like to put him down, but saying this thing is causing me stress or I'm worried about this or it's really bothering me that there's this thing, then guy will want to step in and save the day. We just want to do, we would much rather save the day.   than be nagged to do something. That's like very easy. Like, so you don't even have to ask for help. If you ask for help, like obviously, if you're like, oh my gosh, could you please help me these water bottles, you big strong man. I'd be like, absolutely. Like, let me do this. Like, yeah, I would think I'm so great. That's like, that's the superpower. Like women have that superpower. You can just like, we wanna, we just wanna take care of you. So that's, I think that's been a big thing this year is kind of.   stepping a little bit more into recognizing the differences in masculine and feminine and being able to step into that. And gosh, what else this year? What I think you touched on it very briefly, but I think one of the things you've been a lot better at recently is setting boundaries. That's been interesting. Yeah, I read a book about boundaries and it   kind of gave me a breakthrough. I thought boundaries were about this is what I'm willing to tolerate and I need to control other people. And I think that what I read about boundaries though that kind of shifts in my thinking is that boundaries are not about saying what the other person needs to do or should do or shouldn't do. It's about figuring out what I will do and what I will do if people act a certain way. Because boundaries are about setting your   locus of control, not trying to control somebody else. It's about you being in control of you. And so figuring out here's what I'm comfortable with and if things are gonna go this way then I don't wanna be part of this or I'm not comfortable. So I think there's been a little bit of setting boundaries. I think though there's also been a heavy for me challenge in kind of resetting expectations boundaries. I grew up in a very conservative culture.   where the women did not, you're not really supposed to talk to other men if you're a married woman. Yeah, oh I know. And so that to me, it felt like Sarah was always trampling on my boundaries because she's like, this year you've really gotten into flying. And so she's spending hours alone with a guy, a dude in an airplane. And that's something like I've had to instructor is a male. Yeah, yeah. And so that's been something I've had to get.   I had to challenge those beliefs because that belief was causing me a lot of grief. A lot of times we think the other person is causing the grief. It's usually the belief you have connected that person that's causing. The belief was, Sarah shouldn't be talking to men. Now, I had to question that belief. If you've ever heard of Byron Katie, she's got this great book called Loving What Is, and this whole methodology she calls Doing the Work.   And went through and I did the work on this, which is you question the belief. You take the belief, you figure out what it is, you figure out how do I feel when I think this thought, when I have this belief? Well, then I feel angry and I feel hurt and I feel disrespected and all these kind of things. And so then I take that belief and I question it. Is it true? Is it true that Sarah shouldn't be around men or talk to men? Well, obviously, I can't say that that's totally true because...   We coach clients. We coach clients. We coach men. Yes. lot of our clients are men. Some are women. Yeah. And, you know, she has a pilot that she learns from. And so I recognized I had to find a truer belief. So the truer belief that I got in touch with was because part of the exercise is to turn around. Sarah should be around other men. And I was like, how is that true? Well, yeah.   ⁓ good men will help develop Sarah, good men will protect Sarah, good men will help expand her mind and help her reach higher levels and make her a better person. Good men will, right? And so I was like, okay, so that's true also. So there's this conflict, maybe that's not as true. And then I was thinking, well, if it's good for her to be around other men because they help her teach and they can help her learn and help her grow, then.   you know, then it can be a good thing. It can be a good thing about that. But if that's true, then what is all these feelings that I have? Well, my past relationship, there were a lot of challenges that traumatized me that like would bring up stuff. So then I had to actually deal with that stuff and heal things instead of try to get Sarah to be a certain way to make me feel safe. The other thing I got in touch with working with them,   Men's out there for a second. Yes, I feel like that's something that you do really well that not everyone can do What's that you well, you just did a whole bunch of work on that. Yeah, I mean you acknowledged hey I'm feeling a certain kind of way and is This how I should be feeling and does that belief and does that? Emotion and does that thought system does that actually serve me or is there something that's better and true and I should actually look   at myself instead of projecting that onto other people. And I think that's something that, I mean, you've generally always been really good at that, but I think like this last year, you've done that in a lot of different aspects. And I just wanna like commend you for that because I don't know that everyone can always do that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, I think that's true. think the fact that you are a high growth minded individual,   and you're reaching big goals and you're moving towards your dreams and you're flying and getting your dream car and doing all the stuff that you're doing. Yeah, mean, if you have a partner that's growing, if you're with them, you're tethered to this roller coaster that's on the move. And so yeah, think that being in relationship with you, I'm a high growth individual too. There's times where I thought I would outgrow you and it would create discomfort, like you wouldn't keep up with me.   And I've always been pleasantly surprised as well. And so I think that's the challenge and the benefit of being in a relationship with somebody that wants to grow when you want to grow as well. It's going to force you to grow in areas that you didn't expect to. And so I had to reconcile all these different feelings that would come up as you're stepping into new ways of being and new areas of growth to figure out to figure myself out and figure out why am I feeling this way and how do I feel about this and.   So yeah, I think that's been really beneficial to recognize that we have great mentors that are great men. Yeah. Right. And how what a shame it would be if I couldn't learn from people like that. And I would love for you to absorb as much as you can from some of these mentors and great men that we know. And and to have a belief that you shouldn't like communicate with men or or pair off with a guy or whatever. There's like that would make   flying pretty difficult or you'd to find a female pilot instead of the best most women don't like me. Maybe a lot of women don't like you, I don't know. It's hard. So I think, yeah, I think there's been a big year of growth in kind of figuring out that and figuring out what my needs are and, you know, my, mentioned I have a coach that coaches men. She's a woman and so I'm spending time with her, right?   And she's helping me to get insight and understand some of the things that are my challenges so that I can grow and develop and help me understand how this really allowing you to grow benefits me. You're a much more fun and playful, even feminine person as you get into the state of play in life and being able to do the things that you enjoy doing and flying planes and having dogs and all of the stuff that you love to do.   All right, well we have a few minutes before we wrap up because we've got your birthday dinner to go to. yeah. So before we end then what are you looking forward to in the next year? Well I'm really excited. I feel like I have been on a really strong personal trajectory for growth in the last year and I feel like our relationship has gotten a lot deeper. I feel a lot   safer and more connected. There's always been this kind of subtle anxiety from the previous traumas and the previous stuff that I'd gone through and relationships and stuff like that. And I feel just like, I feel like I finally understand you. Cause there was a lot of friction related to that previous thing thinking Sarah doesn't understand men and doesn't understand the dangers of men, doesn't understand the boundaries of men. And that Sarah   doesn't have boundaries towards men. So we had conversations about this, because this also allowed me to bring up my concerns. And then you shared, you're like, no, like this is how I would handle this. This is how I feel about this. This is how I would never do this. And like this sort of thing. so whereas before it felt like we were kind of playing this tug of war rope where I was trying to get you to be more respectful in relation to not.   being around men or communicate with men without me or something and you were trying to not feel controlled by this domineering husband. And so we're like, er. I like double down. That's what I, that's my fun game I like to play. Yeah. So we were both kind of misunderstanding each other. And so it's been a lot nicer to be able to recognize, ⁓ we really have a lot more in common related that and healthier boundaries. And we both really value the relationship.   And that's allowed me to feel a lot safer and for you to finally understand me and be able to communicate what's going on with me for you to understand that. And then my coach that I'm working with to say, hey, it's OK for you to have these feelings and have an issue that you need to work through and to go to your partner saying, hey, I could use some reassurance with this, but not to go to them with accusation and then they resist, right? To go to you and say, hey,   I'm feeling away about this and I'm getting all mixed up in my thinking or it's getting more than I can handle and I'm freaking out. You know, can you like reassure me and like if I communicate that way, then you can help me through that. And then it reduces the need for that because then I'm in a state of safety. Whereas what we were creating before was kind of, it was snowballing into more and more anxiety in me because of that tug of war. so, yeah, so I'm really excited in the next year.   how our relationship will develop even more. I feel like we've grown so much and I feel like we've got really big goals that we've connected with in the business. Just even in the last few weeks. Just even the last few weeks that we're planning to do that really can take DoorGrow to the next level and really have it dominate and benefit the industry. And we've got some big, big enemies we want to go after. We've got some big goals that we want.   To do we've got some big impact we want to have to make a difference and you know And it's been just so rewarding to be able to connect with clients about this and get them thinking it with a bigger vision as well So I think I truly feel like if you're not involved in DoorGrow You're going to miss it like you're gonna miss the bus like the the bus is taking off soon like it's going Get on it   But I feel like, that was one of my comments on Jeremy's post the other day. He's like, just me and 12 of my best friends having lunch. And I was like, yeah, no big deal. Just a bunch of property managers about to take over the whole industry. That's what I feel like us and our clients are really going to do is we're going to dominate the entire industry. And I'm super excited for that. Yeah, we just took a trip recently to Mexico. We were part of a big mastermind with some high level thinkers.   And we got some really good mental technology installed in our brain that really was a game-changer for us thinking outside the box with a bigger vision and We're injecting that into all of our clients getting the think bigger and I think we're going to have the most innovative group of property managers and clients ever and I nobody will be able to keep up with innovation and the things that we're all doing because we all have such bigger goals and our clients are little   They're excited. I'm excited. And so I think that DoorGrow is going to do some big things and I think we're going have a big impact, which is awesome. So that makes me really excited because there's nothing better than changing lives. you know, we've got a client named Joy and she messaged me the other day and she said, ever since we met and did our jumpstart session, she says, I'm finally sleeping again at night. And that's like, yeah, that's the stuff. That's way better than money.   You can't buy that. You have to really contribute to others to get something like that. And so that's really amazing. So I'm just really excited to help change some lives and have some impact. that's the next year. well. All right. Well, let's wrap up and go to dinner. All right. So if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to next level, reach out to us at DoorGrow.com   and join our free Facebook group. You can get into our free Facebook community. It's just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, then don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye, everyone.