Diane Ravitch, an education policy expert, discusses the unintended consequences of popular education reform movements such as accountability and choice. She argues that these reforms have corrupted testing, taken time away from other subjects, and failed to boost success in math and reading. The discussion also explores the manipulation of numbers in education and business, the flaws in the No Child Left Behind policy, the history and impact of voucher programs, the success of Catholic schools, the growth and impact of the charter school movement, and the importance of parental involvement in education.
Accountability and choice in education reform have had unintended consequences and failed to boost success in math and reading.
Charter schools may provide alternatives for some students, but they do not address broader educational challenges.
The school choice movement and voucher programs have not produced significant improvements in student achievement.
Deep dives
The History of the American Education System and the Continuous Calls for Reform
The podcast episode discusses the history of the American education system and the recurring theme of crisis and reform movements. The guest, Diane Ravitch, highlights that throughout the twentieth century, various reform movements have advocated for changes in education, citing reasons such as the need for more progressive curricula, vocational education, and the call for a new social order. Ravitch points out that these crises often drive specific changes in education policy, but she also questions the effectiveness of these reforms in addressing the underlying issues. She emphasizes the need to consider cultural factors, socioeconomic status, and family dynamics in understanding educational challenges.
The Limitations and Consequences of Accountability Measures in Education
The podcast explores the accountability movement in education, particularly the introduction of the No Child Left Behind Act in 2001. Ravitch initially supported the idea of accountability, but has come to question its impact. She argues that the increased focus on basic skills like reading and math, combined with high-stakes testing, has led to a narrowing of the curriculum. Moreover, Ravitch points out that evidence shows charter schools and other alternative models, which were championed as part of the accountability movement, do not consistently outperform traditional public schools. She warns against the negative consequences of punishing schools and teachers solely based on test scores, as it may incentivize cheating and limit overall educational quality.
The Charter School Movement: Successes, Challenges, and Criticisms
In this podcast episode, Ravitch discusses the charter school movement and its mixed outcomes. She acknowledges that there are successful charter schools, such as the KIPP network, but also points out that many charter schools do not perform better than regular public schools. Ravitch highlights concerns about charters cherry-picking students, avoiding the most challenging cases, and contributing to a decline in community cohesion. She stresses that while charter schools may provide alternatives for some students, they do not address the broader educational challenges faced by the majority of students in traditional public schools. Ravitch emphasizes the importance of focusing on the 97% of students in public schools and finding systemic improvements rather than solely relying on choice and competition.
Challenges with the Educational System
The podcast explores the challenges faced by the educational system in teaching students basic skills such as math and reading. The speaker discusses how many children are entering school without the fundamental knowledge needed to succeed in higher education. There is a lack of preparation among students and a revolt among math professors who find that students are ill-prepared for higher education in math. The speaker highlights the need for changes in teacher training, curriculum, and assessment methods to improve the education system.
The Failure of Voucher Programs
The podcast discusses the limitations of the school choice movement and voucher programs. While there was enthusiasm for these programs, they have not produced the dramatic improvements in student achievement that were hoped for. Voucher programs have faced legal challenges and have not had conclusive evidence of their effectiveness. The speaker also points out that the shrinking supply of Catholic schools and competition with charter schools have hindered the success of voucher programs. The podcast highlights the need for comprehensive educational reform and suggests that the emphasis on test scores and accountability measures may not be the most effective approach.
Diane Ravitch of NYU talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the ideas in her new book, The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice Are Undermining Education. Ravitch argues that the two most popular education reform movements, accountability and choice, have had unintended consequences that have done great harm to the current generation of students. She argues that the accountability and testing provisions in legislation like No Child Left Behind and similar reforms have actually corrupted the testing process, taken time away from subjects other than math and reading, and failed even to boost success in math and reading. She argues that the empirical record has provided little evidence that school choice as it has been implemented has boosted achievement. The discussion closes with a discussion of what reforms might indeed make a difference.
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