TPP 405: Navigating PDA in America, with Diane Gould and Ruth Fidler

In today’s conversation, I’m diving into the much-anticipated book Navigating PDA in America with the co-authors and thought leaders in the PDA space, Diane Gould and Ruth Fidler. We've touched on PDA in past episodes, but I learned so much from this book, and I’m excited to share it with you because PDA is a diagnosis bringing a lot of clarity and relief to families. As it gains traction in the neurodivergence space, the more we know, the better we can support PDAers in our communities. In this episode, we talk about the nuances of the PDA profile and how to one might determine if the identification fits, where North America stands in understanding PDA in comparison with the rest of the world, the challenges PDA individuals face in school and how they can effectively be addressed, what type of therapy is best for someone with a PDA profile, and much more.

About Diane Gould

Diane Gould is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker that specializes in serving autistic individuals. As the Executive Director and Founder of PDA North America, she founded the annual PDA North America conference held in Chicago that has changed the lives of hundreds of PDA (pathological demand avoidance/persistent drive for autonomy) families. She co-authored the book Navigating PDA in America with Ruth Fidler which was published in June 2024. In April 2024, Diane was diagnosed as autistic.

Diane has a private practice in the suburbs of Chicago, where she serves neurodivergent children, adults and their families. Over the last 40 plus years, she has worked for both private agencies and school systems. She currently focuses her practice on providing consultation and training. She works primarily with parents and regularly attends school meetings with them. Diane loves to train educators and therapists so they can better serve their students and clients. And learning about PDA, led her to begin the new PDA movement in North America. Diane formed PDA North America at the first American PDA conference in March 2020.

About Ruth Fidler

Ruth Fidler is an Education Consultant specializing in complex presentations of autism, Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and emotional well-being. She worked at an all age non-maintained special school for 22 years until 2014 and has worked independently since then. Ruth worked within the school promoting interactive approaches and emotional well- being for pupils with varying autistic profiles.

As well as providing training, she regularly observes and monitors teaching and learning, supporting staff to embed and refine good autism and SEND practice. She often presents at local or national events and conferences for parents and for a range of professionals. She is co-author of the following books: Understanding Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome in Children, Can I Tell You About Pathological Demand Avoidance?, Collaborative Approaches to Learning, Girls and Autism, Being Julia, and Navigating PDA in America.

Things you'll learn

• How Diane and Ruth came to share their personal journeys working with neurodivergent individuals and collaborate on the book Navigating PDA in America
• The state of understanding and awareness of PDA in North America in comparison with the UK and Australia
• The factors that distinguish a PDA profile of autism, including using socially strategic ways to avoid demands and more
• Ways schools can better support PDA students, such as adopting flexible approaches, building trust, and recognizing the need for fluctuating capacity and recovery time
• Why traditional therapeutic modalities may be ineffective for PDA individuals, and what is most important for therapy to be successful and positive

Resources mentioned

• Diane Gould’s website
• Ruth Fidler’s website
• Navigating PDA in America: A Framework to Support Anxious, Demand-Avoidant Autistic Children, Teens, and Young Adults by Ruth Fidler and Diane Gould
• PDA North America
• PDA Society (UK)

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