In this episode, I reconnect with my friend Barry Taylor for a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation.

The heart of our conversation dives into the philosophical work of Emanuele Coccia, whose poetic reflections on plants, the home, and mixture have deeply impacted both of us. We explore how Coccia’s idea of the “metaphysics of mixture” dissolves hard boundaries between self and world, body and environment, offering an alternative to more buffered, defended views of the self—like those found in classical psychoanalysis.

We also talk about Jameson Webster’s On Breathing, which resonates deeply with Coccia’s philosophy. Together, these works prompt us to rethink embodiment, aesthetics, fear, and desire. One of Coccia’s insights we return to is the idea that it’s not courage but desire that helps us overcome fear—a notion that has therapeutic implications and got me thinking about how we might rekindle desire in those stuck in anxiety or avoidance.

Throughout, we wrestle with big questions about subjectivity, animism, bathrooms as gendered spaces, and the need to dethrone reason in favor of a more holistic, enchanted vision of reality. We even get into Barry’s reflections on flatulence, the philosophy of shit, and how our treatment of the “unclean” reveals deep cultural truths.

Whether you’re a fan of philosophy, psychoanalysis, or just curious about how to live more openly and connectedly in the world, this conversation is for you.

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