What does it really mean to “survive” when what you survive… lingers? Emi Nietfeld went from being homeless to graduating from Harvard. But the rags-to-riches story isn’t ever completely true. It skips over the hardest parts—complicated families, long-term trauma on brains and bodies, the ways we wish we could go back and undo what has been done.

This is an incredible story about resilience—what it is, and what it isn’t. You’re going to love the way she talks about the power of her efforts. And the ways she learned to get back up, but should have never had to.

In this conversation, Emi and Kate discuss:

the cost of resilience
the downsides of relying on the individual therapeutic to solve every problem (and why we should be looking for ways to create systemic or family solutions too)
how hope and ambition can pull you toward a future
the complexities of navigating the value of success when weighed against the lasting impact of trauma

Emi carefully interrogates what it really means to “overcome” anything. It makes us all feel less alone when we can say, honestly, that some things can be conquered and some things conquer us.

CW: brief mentions of suicidal ideation, eating disorders, self-harm, adverse childhood, hoarding, trans issues

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jenseits von Reden (mit Amelie Fried)