TCC Podcast #154: How to improve the research process with Hannah Shamji

Copywriter and expert researcher, Hannah Shamji, joins us in the ultra-plush Copywriter Club studio for our 154th episode. Hannah has been making a name for her self doing research for Copyhackers Agency and we wanted to learn more about how she does it. We asked Hannah about: •  how she went from boring public policy to copywriter and research specialist •  The catalyst  for making her career change •  how her previous experience helped her make the jump more quickly •  the first steps she took as a new copywriter (and started looking for clients) •  what it feels like to find clients when you don’t know everything yet •  Hannah’s research process… goals, questions, hypothesis •  how to define the goals for research so you know what’s most important •  the kinds of data she looks for as she does her research •  the one thing she always does when asking questions •  two things you can do immediately that will help you do research better •  the mistakes most copywriters make when conducting research •  the bad questions you probably shouldn’t ask •  how to get clients excited about research •  what you don’t know (that you should know) about interviews Want to improve your research chops. Then add this one to your favorite podcast app. Or click the play button below. If you prefer reading, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The copywriter therapist post Hannah’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 154 as we chat with conversion copywriter Hannah Shamji about how she became a copywriter, the best way to get good voice of customer data, how to conduct a great interview, her role at Copy Hackers, and how psychology makes her a better copywriter. Kira:   Hey, Hannah. Welcome. Rob:   Hey, Hannah. Hannah:        Thank you. Hey, guys. Kira:   All right, Hannah. This conversation has been a long time coming. We've had to reschedule a couple times, but we're really excited to chat with you and really dig into some of your processes around research and experiences. But before we do that, let's kick it off with your story, how did you become a copywriter and researcher? Hannah:        Yeah, for sure. Well, I'm super excited to be here thanks for having me on. My story is kind of meandering as I feel a lot of folks are. I have a bachelor's in psychology, a master's in public health and jumped into public health policy and research. So pretty heavy in the academic side of research, and kind of government policy development, pretty boring words to most folks, myself included. And I think it was about like five-ish years ago that I... Maybe four years ago, and I just kind of pump the brakes, looked up the clock. It was 10:08, I remember the time exactly and decided I was just going to quit. So I handed in my resignation the next day and had zero idea of what I was going to do, and I didn't even really think about clearly planning that before. So it was a few hops before I found copywriting. I had my own jewelry business, I did affiliate marketing, a t-shirt business, and kind of just hopped around. And I started a counseling training program which was a three year program. I just graduated from that last year. And it was on that path that I've always liked writing, enjoyed writing, and came across one of Copy Hackers' blogs. I think it's written by Sam Woods, and it's talking about the theory of copywriters towards therapists, and that blend which was exactly the line I wa...