TCC Podcast #194: The Anti-Copy Copy Course with Christina Torres

Copywriter Christina Torres is our guest for the 194th guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast. Christina is a member of The Underground and The Copywriter Think Tank so we’ve seen some of the changes she’s made to her business recently. We talked to Christina about her business and the kinds of things she does as a pocket CMO. Here’s most what we covered… •  her story—how she became a copywriter by mistake •  how she got permission to do the thing she really wanted to do •  what she does in her role as a CMO in your pocket •  how she’s worked with copywriters as a CMO to help them grow •  some examples of her work and how she helps people get out of their own way •  how she attracts and connects with her clients •  why she took the time to figure out what she doesn’t like to do •  how she found clients in the the programs she has joined •  the importance of taking a stand in her business and making change •  the idea of a culture and equity audit for the work she does •  how she balances all the things competing for her time •  the catalyst for the new program she’s launching •  what an anti-copy course copy course would look like •  launching even when there’s too much other stuff going on This is a good interview you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher. Or scroll down to read a full transcript and see links to what we talked about.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Marie Forleo Laura Belgray Samar Owais Matt Hall Rachel Rogers Christina’s website Christina’s insta Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   This episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the place to connect with hundreds of smart copywriters who share ideas and strategies to help you master marketing, mindset and copywriting in your business. Learn more at TheCopywriterUnderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 194 as we chat with copywriter and CMO in your pocket, Christina Torres, about how her business has evolved to include much more than copywriting, what she's done to juggle working a job while pursuing a side hustle, how copywriters can speak up and create change, and what she's done to figure out what comes next. Kira:   Welcome, Christina. Christina Torres:   Hey. I'm so excited. Ah, this is like the nerdiest, surreal thing that's ever happened and I'm just pinching myself. I'm so excited to be with my copy uncle and my copy cousin. That's what I call Kira. You're not my copy dad. I feel like Rob is so much cooler. Rob:   I'm a really cool dad, I got to say. I'm not cool at all, actually. Just ask my daughters. They remind me of that, seriously, every single day; how uncool I am. Kira:   That's their job. Their job is to remind you of that every day. I'm glad I'm the cousin and not the mom. I feel like I can barely mom. Christina Torres:   We're too close in age. Kira:   I can barely mom, parent my own children. So, I'm happy to be the cousin. Christina Torres, we have had the pleasure of hanging out with you and working with you in The Underground. And then also, more recently, in The Think Tank over the last month. But we want to really start with your story and how you became a copywriter. And then, more recently, a Pocket CMO. Christina Torres:   Yeah, sure. I think ... I was just listening to your most recent podcast and I feel like everyone says this, but of course I became a copywriter by mistake. I feel like that's so cliché but it's kind of true. Not really. I became a copywriter by mistake in that I didn't know what it was, but I knew I always wanted to be a Mad Men. I was, before it was cool and before people really were like, "Ooooh." ... Before there was Casper and before there was all these cool brands, I would definitely take out my Razr Motorola phone ... That probably doesn't age me too far back ... But I would take pictures of all the cute and clever ads on the subway because I was just obsessed with language and comedy and just funny things. I was always taking pictures because they would just make me giggle. And we run a lot of ads in the New York City subway. It started there, but I didn't know what copywriting was. I was like ... I knew I was wanted to be in advertising, but that's not what I did. I ended up in finance because it's what my mom did. My mom was in public relations and in investor relations. And I went to school for business management. So, now I'm using my degree kind of, but I wasn't then. And I was like, "Where can I make a quick buck and still go to school?" So, I became an administrative assistant all over finance and it just became comfortable and that's where I got stuck. But wherever I could write something, and there's a lot of writing in that and a lot of using other execut- ... I literally would have to use my executive's voice. They weren't writing emails, they weren't writing memos. They were just like, "Can you fix this up?" Or, "Is this on tone?" And I'd just be like, "What would Susan do?" Then I would just write an email. And that was just like, "Oh, I really love this." I was like, "What is this called? There's a thing. What is this called?" And so, I looked it up and how I could get into advertising. And I'll be frank. Before I found The Copywriter Club, I was going on forums and stuff like that and people weren't saying great things about working at advertising companies. I was like, "Maybe this isn't it. Maybe I don't need to work at an advertising company." And so, I just stayed at my day job and I looked for creative spaces. I was always updating people's resumes and always getting people jobs and so I was like, "There has to be money in this, but I don't like resume writing." I just kept searching and I found TCC. I don't even know how it happened. I think it was just podcasts. I think I first found ... Backtracking, I thought I was going to be a coach. There were a lot of weird pivots in my career life. I was just one of those people who were like, "I want to be this. Let's figure out how to do it." And I thought I was going to be a coach and I hired this lady to be my coach. And I thought I was going to be this coach for women of color and single moms. It was very multifaceted. And then I was just like, "This seems exhausting. Absolutely not." And then she was like, "But you're really good at writing emails." I had a following for like a second and I was like, "Oh, maybe this copy thing is a thing." And then I looked it up and I think I was looking up Marie Forleo and then I found Laura Belgray. And then I heard Laura Belgray on The Copywriter Club and I was like, "This is it. This is what I want to do. I want to curse in emails, I want to be silly, I want to be myself, and I want to help other people be themselves and sell stuff. And so, I was like, "Well, I guess I ... If Laura Belgray is on TCC then I need to listen to every TCC episode." And I did. And then I got into the group and then I paid for the membership and then I just asked you all a million and one questions on hot seats and it was when I was like, "Rob, how do I get into agencies?" I will always think of Rob whenever I think of my copywriting story. And he was like, "You don't need an agency. You can do this by yourself." And that was all the permission I needed. And so, I just really scrappily and probably really poorly started copywriting. And my first one ... I knew I was really good at it ... I forget that I have this story in my back pocket. I was actually selling a bunch of furniture and I knew who I wanted to have my furniture. I really loved it. I was moving out of my apartment to move back in with my mom so I could save money for a house and I was like, "I need someone with Brooklyn swag who is going to treat my furniture beautifully and that is going to ... " I basically put this ad on Craig's List talking to the person who needs this furniture, the furniture who needs that person. And I can't remember what the ad was, but someone from Project Runway called and was like, "We'd like to look at your furniture." And I was like, "That's not ... This is a scam." Lo and behold, we got on the phone and some really hot production assistants came over and they bought my furniture for like $500 and I was like, "That's exactly who I wanted to have this furniture. I have a chance. I have a shot." Yeah. It started there and then I got a GoDaddy website and I just owned it. I just told everybody that I was a copywriter, even if I didn't know what the hell it was. Rob:   Christina, in addition to copywriter you also call yourself a CMO in your pocket. What else do you do besides copywriting? Christina Torres:   What I found was because I worked with a lot of bootstrap, a lot of startup solopreneurs, copy was kind of the least of the worries. And I always found myself like, "Oh, what if you thought about this?" And, "What if you consulted this?" And, "Maybe the packages for this need to be positioned this way." So, it kind of was like me offering a little bit more consulting than just the copy. And I was like, "Well, what if I can package this?" It's clear that copy on its own is not what's going to get people there and I think because I was so engrossed in digital marketing I just assumed everyone knew. I just assumed everyone followed the same gurus, that everybody has listened to TCC and they knew that copy is great but you need to really know your market. And I found that people weren't really doing that.