Splitting Humanity: Physical Elites, Cognitive Elites, & The Drugged Masses (Raw Egg Nationalist)

Malcolm, Simone, and controversial writer Raw Egg Nationalist have a far-ranging discussion on where humanity may be headed in the future. They talk about a potential split between high willpower "physical elites" and "cognitive elites", compared to a drugged up underclass losing agency and personal responsibility. Other topics include fertility correlates, the failures of trad-con thinking, why kids need protection from indoctrination, targeting of dissidents' children, and more.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Malcolm Collins here with Simone, and we are joined by raw egg nationalists. I would be very surprised if there are members of our audience who don't know who he is. But, he, he, he's a really an influencer and sort of the conservative lifestyle space, specifically focused on trying to raise awareness around the feminization of the male body due to things like endocrine disruptors,

if you. Want to follow him on Twitter. His, his at is baby gravy nine and he's written five books at this point He's got a sub stack you can check out and yeah Man's world magazine. Oh, yes, of course man's world and it's gonna have a physical edition soon I've heard which is pretty cool. I'd like to see that in stores The the powers that be well probably never let that happen.

So long as it keeps being honest but the topic that I wanted to focus on today was where do you think [00:01:00] society is going like 500 years in the future? And you can chart this in steps, like where you think things are going in 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, et cetera. So let's go.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Well, it's, it's great to be back.

We had such a wonderful conversation last time. I'm, I'm sure this is, this is going to be fantastic too. So, fundamentally, I think I have a, I have a kind of HG Wells esque vision of the future. I think what we're going to see is we're going to see a kind of, a kind of split. In the human race, I think, I mean, I like to, I'm an, I'm an optimist, or I try to be an optimist in many ways about people's ability to take control of their lives.

You know, I mean, I tell people, look, there are simple things that you can do. You're overweight, you can lose weight. You know, you, you can stop eating as much food as you're eating. You can get active, you can reduce your exposure to endocrine disruptors, and you know, you can transform your life. You will be, if you do that, you will be unrecognizable [00:02:00] in a year.

Three years, five years, you'll be a totally different person on my slightly less optimistic days. And I do think that actually there is a large segment of the population that now we'll find it impossible not to be. enormously unhealthy, to be dysgenically unhealthy. And, I mean, you only need to look at the emergence of drugs like Azempic, for instance, Wegovy, you know, these, these fat loss miracle, miracle drugs that are being marketed now.

You know, I mean, they're being explicitly marketed on the, on the assumption. That the majority of people just can't lose weight any other way. Yeah. We, we can't reform society in, in ways that will make it easier for people to make the right choices. And so what you have to do is you have to rely on pharma to do it.

So that's, so this is, this is really where I think it comes in. I think there will be a, there will be fundamentally, I don't know at [00:03:00] what point, maybe it's happening right now. There will be a kind of selection event almost where people with willpower will kind of... We'll kind of break away from the rest of society into a kind of, a physical elite, I think.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I, I, I, one thing I want to add to this, because I think it's really interesting, and this, for me, has been a big turnaround in my relationship with people of Rotundity. Which is contextualizing for myself that obesity is about as genetic as IQ, so very genetic, like 0. 8. However, it does not appear from my research that this level of genetic correlation with obesity is due to any biological change.

It's not like these people have higher or lower metabolism. Actually, human metabolism does not change that much. It would make a difference if you're going, like, two and a half standard deviations from the norm of, like, 200 calories a day. So, like... a candy bar and that's it. So what, what is really then happening here with obesity?

[00:04:00] I think to what you're getting is that willpower is enormously genetic. And so it would make sense what you're talking about. If you begin to have. People separating out, you will have, and I think that this is very different from what a lot of people anticipate, which is like, oh, society will split into like a high IQ and low IQ group, whereas you're saying no, it's going to split into maybe a high willpower, low willpower group, which I could see, I'd be I'd be much more interested in marrying a high willpower person than a high IQ person.

Simone Collins: Well, I think the, what's going on with Osempic and we go via all the semi glutide interventions is it really does demonstrate that this is a willpower thing. Why is that the case? Well, these don't actually slow your metabolism. They make you feel less hungry. So what they're really controlling is willpower in a sense and not, not actual metabolism, which is really, in fact, they're, they're adversely affecting your metabolism because when you lose so much weight, your metabolism drops and then people go off it.

And of course, they gain weight super fast because their body's like, Oh, we're starving.

Raw Egg Nationalist: So yeah. [00:05:00] And, and what, and what also happens is of course that that there've been a couple of studies that have showed this, but you don't just lose fat, you lose muscle. Yeah. And mu and muscle is much more metabolically expensive to maintain than fat.

So actually, oh, you lose, you lose 200 pounds or whatever, but you've actually lost a huge amount of skeletal muscle and then you, unless

Simone Collins: you're actively weight training while you're losing. Yeah, like there are some like nerds who are definitely going for that. Like they're really like, they're aware of the problem, but you don't.

Like, that's like, first off, if you're disciplined enough to lift weights while you're going through this, then you're probably not the kind of person who absolutely needs to use dem semaglutide. No,

Raw Egg Nationalist: exactly. So it's. But what they're, and what they're talking about as well is they're talking about using Azempic and other GLP 1 receptor agonists.

That's the class of drugs that Azempic belongs to. They're talking about using them now to treat other forms of addiction. They're talking about using them to treat alcoholism, for instance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Simone Collins: I was just having a conversation with an obesity doctor and [00:06:00] another super smart guy about this.

And for example, we've had naltrexone forever to treat alcoholism and a bunch of other forms of addiction, but people don't really like how it makes them feel, right? Cause nothing's really that much fun. And you know, these, these new, this new class of drugs is. a lot more pleasant to use, even though there are some unpleasant side effects.

So yeah, it could have a really interesting effect. And it is interesting. I want to see a lot more research on the effects that these do have, even like people have, I don't know how, how much this is anecdotal for people or a placebo effect, you know, reporting less time on social media, less time gambling, et cetera.

It's super interesting.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Well, the side, the side effects of, of semaglutide and these other drugs are very interesting. I've written a written. quite, quite length about them. I wrote a piece, I wrote a piece for American Mind called Fatty's Little Helper. And it was, I mean, I talked at length about the side effects in particular and they're nasty.

They're really nasty. And people are, people are starting to realize now. So one of the, one of the [00:07:00] increased risks from a Zempik is inhaling the contents of your stomach. So, if you, yeah, so, a Zempik, it, normally your stomach empties in a few hours, and what a Zempik does is it, is it slows the movement of food out of your stomach, to a rate of, I mean, it basically doesn't move at all, and in fact, you can get stomach paralysis, but it might take three weeks for your stomach to empty, rather than Oh, three weeks?

Yeah. So what happens is if you're, if you're fat and you are on a Zempik, you're probably, I mean, hugely fat. Now you're likely to have a gastric bypass as well. They're recommending bariatric surgery in, in conjunction with use of a Zempik. Well, you lay, you lay down on the table. Your stomach is still full, and, and so the gastric juices and the food in your stomach comes back up out of your throat and you inhale it into your lungs and you can, you can die.

Okay. But that is, that is called gastroparesis. Wow. Gastroparesis. No,

Malcolm Collins: [00:08:00] it's well, I, I imagine these people, they don't adapt to the new behavior immediately, so they're probably overeating for their new digestive.

Raw Egg Nationalist: I don't, yeah, but that's a, so that's a se that's a serious risk. The other risk is of chronic obstructive chronic obstructions in the, in the intestines.

So they reckon that that might be how Lisa Marie Presley died, or Priscilla Presley, I forget which, which she had. She'd been on a mega, a mega weight loss drive before the premiere of the new Elvis film. And she had already had bariatric surgery because she'd struggled with weight in the past.

Bariatric surgery scars the intestines and it can make them sort of ruckle up almost. And it makes it harder for food to pass through. Well, then you take a Zempig as well. And I just slows to us, the food. basically doesn't move and you get an obstruction and that's how she died. She died of a, of a bowel obstruction.

So there's that as well. But then, but then there's [00:09:00] also the fact that in rat studies, in rodent studies, then these GLP 1 agonist drugs like semaglutide and others reliably cause thyroid tumors in the longterm. Oh, interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Can you quickly go over, if you happen to know the mechanism of action of these drugs?

Raw Egg Nationalist: sO they, they, what is it? I think it's either, it's, it's either, I think it's either ghrelin or leptin. They work on the receptors in the stomach that signal satiety, basically. I don't know the exact mechanism. So they, they signal to your brain that you're, that you're satiated, but they also slow the digestion of your stomach slow the movement of things from your stomach.

So you, you are actually more full.

Malcolm Collins: So Simone, you were saying that they could be used for alcohol. How would that work?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don't. So that's, that's what I, so what Ryan Nationalist said is, is what I understand as well, that, that affects satiety and slows digestion. I don't know how or why this would affect.

Malcolm Collins: [00:10:00] I think people are getting confused with opioid. No, no,

Simone Collins: no. I really, no, no, no, because again, people taking these drugs are reporting these other effects. What I think is happening here is, you know how they say never go shopping hungry. I think that when people feel hungry, they also are engaging in more impulsive behavior.

aNd, and that, that I think is what may be at play when you feel really full. Are you like super keen, like imagine you just ate like a giant holiday meal, like, do you

Malcolm Collins: want to go like, like the roulette table? Oh, that's fascinating, you know another fascinating effect of this is that sexuality changes when people are hungry, if you remember this from our book, I don't.

Even as these drugs become more common we could see changes in human sexuality some really obvious ones are men, prefer smaller breasts when they're less hungry and they prefer larger breasts when they're more hungry. This is also true of poor versus wealthy men. Basically, if your resource scarce, you're going to optimize for women who look like they have more access to resources.

So ladies

Simone Collins: schedule your breast reduction. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Or if you, you, you [00:11:00] have access to copious resources as a man, you're typically going to optimize for women who look like they have a longer reproductive. Cycle, i. e. our younger. So that's really interesting as well. I wonder if in women there's similar like, like sexual changes when they're, when they're not hungry.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Well, there, I mean, there have been, yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure there probably, I'm sure there probably are. I know, I mean, I know that there are, that there are certainly studies that show that women's mate preferences change when they go on and come off hormonal contraception. That's a big one. That's a big one.

And you know, it's been shown that that I think that women, women, when they're on, I can't remember whether it's when they're on contraception or when they're off that they prefer more masculine faces and obviously more masculine faces indicative of higher levels of testosterone. But yeah, so I would, I would.

I mean, all of these hormones, I think what we have to remember is that these hormones have all sorts of effects. You know, we, we talked in the last episode about testosterone is the aggressive hormone that people just think it's about aggression when actually it regulates almost every kind of behavior you can think every type of behavior [00:12:00] you can think of in men and in women as well.

And I think that even appetite hormones like ghrelin and leptin and things like that, then they must obviously be involved in very complicated circuits of, of reward and appetite and, and will within the brain. So yes, I mean, I, I think that Yeah, I think, I think you could definitely, you should, if they haven't done a study of women's sexual preferences when they're hungry and when they're satiated, then they should.

I just

Malcolm Collins: pulled one up, by the way. Okay, so here are the differences. So this one looked at men and women. So for men, it found that hungry males, in line with what I was saying, preferred females with more physically mature features. Specifically females who were heavier, taller, and older. Female participants who are hungry showed elevated preferences for partners with a more mature personality profile.

Simone Collins: So like beards?

Malcolm Collins: No, personality profile. I. E. less probably impulsive, more muted, [00:13:00] like an old man. Because

Simone Collins: when a woman is full, then she's probably into like... Younger, more risky

Malcolm Collins: seeming men? Is that what you're calling them? Yeah, yeah, that's my guess. It's probably this like, Alpha, they're like, when I think what is a young personality profile for a male, it's the typical alpha profile.

Simone Collins: Whereas Someone who will go out and like, kill something for them to eat.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, well, and who's constantly signaling their virtue, like, well, not their virtue, but their what's the word I'm looking for? Prowess. Yeah. Prowess dominance, et cetera. Yeah. Whereas older men are typically not signaling those things as much.

I'm pretty sure that's specifically what they're looking at. Which is interesting because it could mean that a lot of these alpha mindsets are going to be less attractive to women in the near future if they're all on Ozempic.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, I would be more interested. I mean, like, so I think a woman is more likely to want to date someone on Ozempic than a man.

And I say this because like men on Ozempic. You know, I mean, pretty much anyone on either has really good health insurance. They can pay for it or they're wealthy, right? Cause this is not [00:14:00] cheap.

Malcolm Collins: Well, men are no Zimbic are going to like fat women. That's what the studies show. You know, you're more into older, fatter women.

I think women are going to be really pushing this.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. So then that's, that's fortunate, but I yeah, I mean, I, I'm just trying to think of the correlatory factors with who's taking a Zimbic. I think men are going to prefer women who are not taking a Zimbic. So why do you say that? Because they're, they're.

They've better inhibitory control and they're probably...

Malcolm Collins: Most men don't care, they just care what women look like. That's true, fair. Oh well. Okay, let's, let's talk about this split in humanity, right? High will, low will category. But they may look fairly similar, it's just the amount of drugs that they're using.

Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Raw Egg Nationalist: I, I think, I think we may very well see physical differences start to emerge. Now, I don't know. I'm not a, any kind of genetic specialist, so I can't tell you how many, how many generations it takes, for instance. It happens really quick, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, I mean, I've read, uh, one of my favorite books is Western [00:15:00] Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

This is an amazing, amazing, it's what I think it's the best book on nutrition ever written, written in the written in the 1930s. He was a dentist and he, he went and he visited, uh, well, he was a dentist and he, he observed in his patients in Cleveland that they were developing all sorts of facial deformities and behavioral difficulties, especially the children.

And he thought it was something to do with the diet because. They were starting to eat more and more industrially produced foods rather than the kind of foods that their parents and grandparents had eaten, locally produced whole foods, animal foods, etc. He went on a globetrotting adventure looking for tribal societies that still ate their traditional diets as a kind of comparison case for You know, for people eating industrial diets in the West and I mean, he discovered, for instance in the Scottish Highlands, the, the, the Highlanders of Scotland were once the tallest people in Europe.

They were regularly six foot seven, [00:16:00] six foot eight, seven feet tall, sometimes, you know, hugely tall people. And then within a generation after they stopped. eating their traditional diets after they stopped eating fish livers baked with oats and, and, you know, lots of milk and butter and all that kind of stuff.

Started eating industrial food stuff, bleached flour, canned foods, all that kind of stuff. They shrank six inches, something like that, in a generation. Yeah, there was massive, massive shrinkage, apparently. I mean, I still think Highlanders are tall, but, but... So, so yes, I mean, I probably think it could happen quite quickly, and I do, I do think that there will be, on a long enough timeline, then we will see, we will see something like, like what H.

G. Wells describes in The Time Machine, I think. Unless, of course, there are interventions with technology, maybe, that, that sort of counter the, the just, the dysgenic influence of bad lifestyle, massive medication, inactivity, all that kind [00:17:00] of stuff. But I do think that what we're going to get is a self selecting, very small, a much smaller minority, self selecting, an in group that sort of mates within the in group.

 And it will, it will be a physical elite, but I think it will be a cognitive elite too. I mean, bad life, bad lifestyles, you have to understand obesity, lack of exercise, you know, they have epigenetic effects on every aspect of your body, including your brain. And I mean, I think that there was a study, I did see a study, I think that correlated obesity with IQ, some, something.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, they do seem to correlate in general, like, Also, that's a really high correlate with

Malcolm Collins: hyperthroid, unfortunately. Yeah, so, so other than IQ, obesity, I think it's the second highest corollary with fertility rate. The genetic so specifically here, what I'm saying is the polygenic score. So like the genetic code that is associated with Obesity is also heavily associated and can be used as a predictor for how many kids [00:18:00] someone is going to have.

So we will see, and it's being selected for almost as much as the one for low IQ is being selected for. So we're very likely to see a, a rapid rise in obesity, given that it's about as genetic as IQ, and it's being selected for about as much as IQ. We should probably see the same one standard, but, but it.

opposite. One standard deviation shift upwards in obesity within the next 75 years in terms of the genetic correlates for it, which is at least within the mainstream population that isn't performing any sort of strong sexual selection practices, which is why it's important to begin to think about, like, what do the sexual selection practices of your family look like?

What are you telling your kids if they're going out there? And this is one of the really toxic things that I think comes from You know, sort of the, the red pill mindset if they're going out there and optimizing on banging hot chicks, that is not optimizing for genetic fitness in a world of things like Ozympic and stuff like that.

You need to [00:19:00] be banging and or not even banging. You need to be marrying sane chicks. You can go out there and bang hot chicks, but you need to marry it. And there are not many of them. They are a far greater prize than a hot chick in today's environment. And it is very easy to accidentally, you know, marry someone who, who has these negative causes or negative genetic correlates.

When you didn't intend to, I'm not saying like. Freeze them out. It depends on your culture's. Optimization. The culture that Simone and I would create for our kids. I would want them to marry people who are you know, psychologically healthy and that, that have a, yeah, but it's up to the individual.

I just think that this can be hidden from individuals So it's it's very easy to to have a genetically permeable culture when you didn't intend to

Raw Egg Nationalist: yeah Yeah, I think that's I mean there's yeah, I I I don't I don't really know. I don't really know what to add to that. Actually, that's what I'll say.

I think that's I think that's I think [00:20:00] that's that's that's a tremendous way to put it. And I think that there, I think you're right about the limits of the, of the red pill mindset. I mean, I, I'm sure I probably get lumped in with, with these red pill kind of, types, but I don't, I, I have a, a much more nuanced understanding, I think.

And I try to put forward a much more nuanced interpretation of Relations between men and women than a lot of these kind of red pill gurus do it's definitely, it's definitely more complicated than just, you know, the, the solution is to, as you say, is to go out and have sex with as many attractive women as possible because of course, because of course you know, there are, there are ways to make oneself attractive in the short term that actually have absolutely no correspondence whatsoever with longterm fitness, you know, and, and I mean, they always say, you know, it's like, You might want to sleep with a woman, but you're not necessarily going to be the woman you marry, is it?

And I mean, that is, I think that is very true. And I think that I think that we're in a difficult position because of course you need to be discerning But it's actually [00:21:00] becoming much harder to be discerning as well. I mean, I think you always should be discerning but actually um The the prize the size of the prize if you will is shrinking and it is harder and harder Even with even with dating apps and things like that because actually in many respects dating apps are a false economy dating account dating apps you know they actually probably the kind of women and the kind of men that are on dating apps are probably of a very particular kind and actually if that is your sole pool for for reproduction and the possibility of reproduction then actually you may very well be filtering out precisely the kind of people that you should be meeting that you would want that ideally you would want to meet but actually You're just never going to meet them because it's all the crazy BPD, BPD crazy women on there.

Simone Collins: We see that a lot in, in the far future. What would you hope for? Like, I feel like right now we're at this, this point in society where things could go one of many ways. [00:22:00] And the things that we do now, our actions. Can point us in one direction or another. I think this is a great time to live because of that.

Is there a direction in which you'd like to nudge society? And if so, what would it produce over the long run?

Raw Egg Nationalist: I suppose I, I would love to live. I would love to live in a society that valued health, that valued true health and Because of course we don't. And you know, I write about, I write about all sorts of things.

I write about the way that the FDA licenses chemicals, for instance. The fact that we operate on a presumption of safe until proven otherwise. And I've said, well actually look, it's very obvious actually that, that many chemicals are, Extremely harmful in the long term you can do these short term studies But actually you don't get any idea of of the real effects of the chemicals Until it's too late until it's 70 years down the line and and we're decades away from a from a profound reproductive crisis so I mean I would like to nudge society in a direction where actually we [00:23:00] we we see the ultimate value not as as as commercial value not as money, but as actually the Flourishing human life.

That's what I would which would be much much closer to you know, kind of ancient greek conception of of the good life of Kind of yeah the kind of of the kind of social life that should be fostered, you know It's not just about it's not just about money. It's not about the commercial applications of of new products of new chemicals.

It's actually about How do we live how should we live yeah

Malcolm Collins: and i'd also point out here and i think this is probably i don't know if you but i would definitely consider myself part of the red pill community so when i'm saying the red pill community has these problems i'm talking internally about the community not as an outsider who's like a ha silly red pillars i'm more like hey.

Let's make sure that we and I, and the community is maturing dramatically. Like if you look at where it is versus where it was 10 years ago. I, I think that it is the community that to a [00:24:00] large extent has transformed into this. Well, raw egg nationalism, right?

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah, I mean, I, I think, I think that, yeah, I think, I think you're right about that.

I think you're right about that. I mean, I would, yeah, I mean, I, I, I'm red pilled in certain respects and I certainly recognize that you know, that a lot of, a lot of the stuff that even the sort of archetypal masculinity guru, you know, of the past. said is true and people like heart east for instance, who's a kind of you know, do you remember heart east?

He was yeah. Yeah. Yeah people like that You know, they a lot of the stuff that they said particularly about hypergamy That kind of stuff. I mean, it's totally it's totally true It's totally true and I think that people people need to understand it there's a kind of what I would say is that actually maybe as the red pill community has become more popular, then of course it's been democratized and it's been watered down and you get these people who just, you know, reheat these very, very old takes endlessly for, you know, for likes on social [00:25:00] media.

But actually, I think that the fundamental, the fundamental, the fundamental motivation behind the red pill community, I think is He's right and I think I think some of the fund the fundamental insights are right as well, too

Malcolm Collins: So it's really interesting the way that you're wording this because this is giving me a bit of a revelation is when I hear like Red pill takes that remind me of red pill takes from when the community was still just called red pill, right?

Like i'm like, oh, that's a really reused take like that's really old and I think the reason is is because the community really mined all of the ideas and all of the the revelations that could have come from this world perspective Within its first like three and a half years of existing and now all of the evolutions of the movement are related on diverging ideals because all of the obvious takes were already mined and so you still have some people like going over those obvious takes but of course the community would evolve and sort of undergo adaptive radiation.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah. Yeah, precisely. Precisely. I mean, [00:26:00] I think what you're seeing is, yes, is people actualizing the kind of red pill insights in different ways. And, you know, so you, you might have someone like Rollo Tomasi who's saying, you know, get, get a vasectomy. And You know, I mean, I think you can agree with some of the stuff that Rollo Tomasi has said, at the same time as thinking, well, that's, that's deeply stupid.

I mean,

Malcolm Collins: I think a lot of men are right in thinking that they'll never get a fair deal in our society right now. And that, you know, we can, I mean, as I've mentioned, a lot of this stuff is genetic. You can be like a smart person and just understand that you have enormously low willpower and you're never going to achieve what you want to achieve because you just don't have the willpower for it.

And, and we can say net up and try to push yourself through it. But I think when I look at the, like the genetic research, I don't know if that's a fair thing for me to be telling people.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah, and I mean, I think, I think as well, then you see a lot of, you see a lot of stupidity on the, on the opposite, or maybe not the op, the opposing side, but the, for instance, like the kind of [00:27:00] trad side where people are saying, you know, everything will be fine if you just get married and have kids.

I mean, people, people, people should get married, I think, and people should have children, but that isn't, that's not the be all and end all. That isn't, that isn't gonna solve, that isn't gonna solve the fundamental problems that are, that have been raised, for instance, by the red bill community. So, we, we

Malcolm Collins: have an episode about this that I...

Because it's, it's one of my favorite episodes, which is how girl defined ruined an entire generation of women. And of course, this was a play on the you know, how Scott Pilgrim ruined an entire generation of women. But the idea being is that. There was this conservative mindset for a while.

The conservative influence with online adapted and, and Girl Defying did this where they basically told people, if you just live by these conservative rules and you get married and you save yourself for marriage and you have kids, everything will be all right. And the point we were making in that video is no, like, like specifically, it wasn't even just everything will be all right.

It's you will get the things [00:28:00] that secular society has been promising you. At a higher level than you can achieve them through sexual, through secular society, like, you know, hedonistic sexual gratification like, relationship that works well without you having to put effort in, and that just wasn't true the, the, the rewards.

for chastity and the rewards for willpower are not the same rewards that secular society is handling, handing out. I think they're better rewards. I think they're more meaningful rewards, but it's very easy to miss that it's a completely different optimization function and a different set of rewards you should be expecting.

And that just because you follow these rules doesn't mean that there aren't hard things that you're going to have to go through every day.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah, yeah, precisely, precisely. And also, I think as well there's a kind of it's almost presented as a kind of Benedict option as well. It's like, you know, you can, you can retreat from the world.

If you just get married and have your nice trad family, you know, everything will be okay. And, [00:29:00] and as, as we know, you know, there's still it's a public education system, massive propaganda apparatus, we do have to change the world. We can't, we can't, we can't retreat from the world. We actually have to change the world.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: and if we retreat, eventually the world is going to come for us. Especially because, as Malcolm frequently points out, the sort of dominant culture doesn't have any other way to get more members than by stealing them because they're not reproducing above repopulation rate. Also thinking long term, one thing I wanted to ask you is what you think...

In 50 years, a hundred years, 500 years is going to be seen as like completely barbaric about the way we live now. Assuming that, you know, what we live, what, what people are like in the future has been selected for. Like, I mean, you know, those who survive those who reproduce, what will they think of? today as being just insane?

Raw Egg Nationalist: That's a, that's a, that's a very good question. I mean, I think we're, we're already seeing, so, you know, I was talking about the advertising for a Zempik. We're already seeing this notion that it is, that it is basically barbaric [00:30:00] to suggest that people intervene to make their own lives better. Yeah. You know, it's like, no, you know, you can't stop, you can't stop eating.

You cannot close the fridge. You cannot, you cannot get up off the sofa and Well, that sounds like fat

Malcolm Collins: phobia to me.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah, I know. It sounds pretty

Malcolm Collins: hateful. I think we might get this video demonetized for that kind of talk.

Raw Egg Nationalist: But, but I think, but I think that what we're gonna see is we're gonna see a real a real growth of that mindset and I think that it will be Pushed by big pharma because it's being pushed by big pharma now It's novo nordisk who's paying for the advertising that says you can't get you can't lose weight other than by taking his mpick So I think that I mean, I think that if if there is this split that i've posited then there may very well be You know one segment of society that just truly believes that actually human beings are almost Like inert, inert objects upon which external forces act and [00:31:00] it is barbaric in any way to expect Independent volition from you know, your average fat or from from anybody, you know from your average fatty So I think that what you might see then is you might see a you maybe you'll see a kind of Ayn Randian split, you know where you've got like these these Ultra high achieving physical specimens who believe that actually any notion that that that anything is beyond your will Is that's barbaric the notion that you know You should coddle people in any way and then you've got the other side of society these people who perhaps believe that actually You can't expect any willpower whatsoever on any level from people that people are just objects Yeah

Malcolm Collins: Well, and it is interesting to me that a lot of these things that are correlated with these lower willpower groups are also correlated with high fertility which means that not only is fertility trauma, and it's likely, I had to guess what's causing this, it's likely that these are the kids, you know, as we say, there's really only two reasons to have a lot more than two kids.

It's either because you have some [00:32:00] exogenous ideological motivation, like that's what's motivating you to do it, or you simply couldn't figure out birth control. You know, either you lacked the initiative to think ahead or whatever, and I think that that's why you're getting this correlation here.

Raw Egg Nationalist: The welfare state as well, I think.

Yeah, that

Malcolm Collins: as well. And so I think what this means is not only are kids dropping in the world, but even faster, and I think the hidden thing that's happening at a much higher rate is these high willpower and other correlations, cultural groups or kids born into them, they are going to be exceedingly rare going into the future, and that means they are the next Bitcoin.

High willpower kids are the next Bitcoin, because as Simone was saying, you know, the mainstream society needs these people, and it needs them disproportionately. That's why we know it's coming for our kids. That's why you can't just go Benedict, because if you have kids, Then you have the one asset they really want and they will come in and they will find a way to take those kids from you.

[00:33:00] And you can see this. If you look at the, you know, highest profile people in our society, like the Elans or whatever, right? Like they targeted his kids aggressively, right? Like that is, is something that any of us should expect. And we need to steal our children against and build communities for them and build systems that help them find spouses in a world where it's going to become increasingly difficult.

And I do think it is a. Parents failure as much as the kids. If you if the kid cannot find a spouse because that that required your, you know, your networking and your culture building and your advice. If you put them in a situation without realizing how much the world was changing around you. And I just can't tell a kid.

Oh, just, you know. F*****g go to a bar like that doesn't work anymore, you know,

Raw Egg Nationalist: yeah No, I think I think that's I think that's very very true I think I think the emphasis on parental maybe that's another thing that will be that will be considered barbaric is leaving your children To defend you to figure everything out for [00:34:00] themselves I mean that is a that is a hallmark of the kind of boomer liberal sort of yeah mode of parenting, right?

Is it's like, Oh, you know, everyone, you have to be free to make your own mistakes. But actually some mistakes are fatal and you can make fatal mistakes very early in your life.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's funny. You mentioned this is, is people often hear about our parenting strategy and they go, Oh my gosh, I can't believe you're going to tell your kids who to be, you know, you're gonna, you're, and they're like, that's so abusive.

And it's like, This is what every culture throughout human history has done until you guys came along. And the only reason why you're against this is because this is one of the tactics you use to separate children from their support networks. You know, as we always say, all cults, they need to separate individuals from their parents and their support networks.

And that's often what they focus on doing first. So the mainstream society, the cult, you know, it, it tells kids your parents giving you advice on who to be or, or putting pressure on you in terms of who to be and what to achieve in life, [00:35:00] that is intrinsically abusive, which is a great psychological tool if you are trying to pry children from high effectiveness cultures.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. I mean, I do think, the Elon, to go back to the Elon stuff, I mean, the Elon stuff is quite shocking, really, the way that his children have been targeted by trans activists, and, you know, in, in public, and not only have they done it, but they've also said, we're transing, we transed your daughter, I think is what they said, or your son, and, yeah, it's, it's terrifying, but that is, in a microcosm that is, that is society at large.

And, you know, I mean, parents, parents are shocked when they discover, you know, when they see a photo of a classroom and they see all of the, all of the banners and the slogans and the pride flags and the love is love and all this kind of stuff on the wall. But it's like, you should know, you should, you should be taking enough of an interest in your child's education to know that [00:36:00] that is, that that stuff is on the wall and that they're being taught by a a rainbow haired .

But people don't until it's People don't until it's too late.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so, we already have this with our kids. Like, we get told online, regularly, like, we are going to target your kids. Like, that is our goal. Is to turn your kids against you. In any way that we can no, I will say, I think that the, the parts of the trans movement right now that have just spiraled out of control, I think that they're actually, they won't be relevant by the time my kids are growing up they, they seem to have lost the, the will of the people Which unfortunately is dragging down, I think, a lot of what I would consider the real trans people.

I mean, there is, there is obviously an effect of all these endocrine disruptors in our environment. Like, like, it would almost be surprising if we didn't see an explosion of actually people who are identifying as a different gender. So, I I feel for them being dragged through the mud by the crazy people.

But those, those crazy people definitely exist right now. And I wonder what the [00:37:00] next movement, what the next iteration of crazy is going to be that targets our kids for conversion. My guess right now, if I'm looking at things, is it's going to be the... Negative utilitarian effortless.

I think that's going to be the next big movement, the voluntary extinction movement.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Yeah. And I, well, I, yeah, and I think it's going to come hand in hand with the climate change movement, of course. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think it's going to be what the climate change movement transforms into. So a portion of them will be motivated by climate change, but I think, and I see this already because I think the climate change movement.

doesn't have the popular will it used to, you know, you look at there's a great study, I think, done on like Gen Z, it was looking at like Greta Thunberg's generation, right? And they are actually much less environmentally friendly than previous generations. They just actually aren't motivated by the climate change movement anymore.

They use people like Greta to speak to old people, but she was not actually effective at communicating with her generation.

Raw Egg Nationalist: It's very, it's very noticeable when you look at these just stop oil protests, like you see, you [00:38:00] know, footage of The Just Stop Oil protestors in London and they're sat on, they're sat on the motorway or something.

It's all old people now. It's all like retired school teachers and civil servants and doctors. There are very few young people.

Malcolm Collins: Young people don't give a s**t about the environment. But, but I think that they're moving because what does sell to young people is doomerism. And that's what the negative utilitarians, that's what the anti natalists offer young people is doomerism.

They say, humanity is a scourge and we need to end it. And, and, and I think that those are going to be the groups that aggressively target our kids the most. Is the ones who want them to hate their lives. And I think that they are going to be surprised by how resistant our kids are to these messages.

 Because we have, Had the fortune of seeing what happened to people like Elon and to build very specific social tools and mechanisms for our kids so that they will be more protected by people who want to indoctrinate them to [00:39:00] punish their parents.

Raw Egg Nationalist: Well, listen, you, you have my full support. You are, you are, no, you are, you are, I mean this genuinely, you are good parents because it is a, it is a.

It is a, it, I mean, the world is terrible full stop, you know, there's been, the world has been terrible since its inception, but there are unique problems, problems that are unique to our situation today and parents need to know about them and they need to do something about them, they need to protect their children because once they're gone, they're gone

Malcolm Collins: as well.

I mean, No, historically, once they were gone, you know, you'd lose them to, like, I don't know, dyed hair for a few years or something like that, and then they come back to you because they're like, oh, mom and dad, you were right. Now, once they're gone, they're gone. They have developed more advanced procedures to ensure that.

And I, I do appreciate, you know, you, you saying there's the term that we used to use for people like us, face Fs. But but, but I, I appreciate your discretion in the public eye and it's, it's [00:40:00] likely the best thing for your family, which, which is very understandable.

Simone Collins: I would say guys, there's actually a lot of hope.

I mean, To be quite honest, Malcolm, the, like, Eliphists and the environmental antinatalists, like, they aren't going to last longer than a couple generations. And anyone who chooses to adopt that belief with every new generation is also not going to have kids. So I feel like over time, that kind of culture just isn't going to be able to spread because over time, you know, basically anyone who might have that kind of tendency, they're being selected against and, and sterilized.

So I feel like the. The future that we can expect, especially in a post, like a post modern world with lots of technology is going to be very pronatalist because everyone else is just not,

Malcolm Collins: not going to reproduce. Well, I agree. We gotta, but what I'm saying is who's going to be targeting our kids? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Well, I mean, yeah, yeah. That's a question.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway I I am so [00:41:00] excited that we had you on again. This, this podcast was incredible. I really liked it. And I hope our audience does as well and they should really check out your sub stack, your Twitter, which is again, baby gravy

Raw Egg Nationalist: nine. Yes.

Simone Collins: And Men's World Magazine, plus all of RAG Nationalist's existing books on Amazon.

There are four, but there is a fifth one on the way. And if you go to his sub stack, you may get some sneak peeks of it. So do not

Raw Egg Nationalist: miss it. Thank you. Thank you. Listen, it's been, it's been a real pleasure. You're you're, you're really interesting people to talk to. And this is, this has been a really fascinating conversation.

Thanks so

Simone Collins: much for joining. Definitely come back. We want to have more conversations like these and yeah, thanks again for your time.

Raw Egg Nationalist: I absolutely will. Thank you. Woohoo!

Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe