Jim talks with Seth Lloyd about the many ways of measuring complexity. They discuss the difficulty of measuring complexity, the metabolism of bacteria, Kolmogorov complexity, Shannon entropy, Charles Bennett's logical depth, cellular automata, effective complexity & its discovery, the effective complexity of a bacterium, coarse graining, fractal dimensions, Lempel-Ziv complexity, the invention of Morse code, epsilon machines, thermodynamic depth, mutual information, integrated information as a more intricate form of mutual information, panpsychism, whether "consciousness" has a referent, network complexity, multiscale entropy, pragmatic application of complexity measures, and much more. Episode Transcript JRS EP 79 - Seth Lloyd on Our Quantum Universe The Origins of Order: Self-Organization and Selection in Evolution, by Stuart Kauffman Seth Lloyd is professor of mechanical engineering at MIT. Dr. Lloyd's research focuses on problems on information and complexity in the universe. He was the first person to develop a realizable model for quantum computation and is working with a variety of groups to construct and operate quantum computers and quantum communication systems. Dr. Lloyd has worked to establish fundamental physical limits to precision measurement and to develop algorithms for quantum computers for pattern recognition and machine learning. He is author of over three hundred scientific papers, and of Programming the Universe (Knopf, 2004).