Bret speaks with Jonathan Pageau a symbolic thinker, YouTuber, and carver of orthodox icons.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ

https://thesymbolicworld.com/

http://www.pageaucarvings.com/

https://twitter.com/PageauJonathan

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Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.

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(00:00) Introduction

(02:47) Bret on religions being “Literally false, metaphorically true” NOT “a mind virus”

(05:35) Jon’s definition of religion

(07:57) Bret – all scientists have faith, i.e. base assumptions, axioms

(11:15) Jon’s definition of faith, as levels of understanding

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(15:45) Bret’s article of faith in evolution

(17:56) Jon’s refinement: religion is the “patterning” of being

(20:07) Emergence is the jump between levels

(21:45) Jon’s emergence

(23:34) Adaptive evolution and group selection

(26:45) Why does cooperation exist?

(28:05) Survivability of individual or group or lineage

(32:05) Google Vs Catholicism

(33:26) Point of attention

(35:55) Evolution predicts the behavior of religions

(38:46) Richard Dawkins’ memes

(42:35) Self sacrifice

(45:56) Confessions in a congregation

(49:30) Jon on importance of self sacrifice

(53:44) Rapist gene

(59:24) Geneva Convention

(01:00:39) Flip the table on the genes

(01:01:49) Purpose of organisms

(01:03:13) Consciousness and purpose

(01:05:16) Purpose

(01:09:15) One homogenous religion

(01:13:55) Centralized digital identity and mark of the beast

(01:19:59) Genes are self replicating patterns

(01:23:19) Bret’s “obsession” with genes

(01:25:09) Starting from experience, not genes

(01:31:06) Consciousness is recognizing patterns

(01:33:35) Consciousness is good

(01:39:36) Technological systems are driving us into madness

(01:42:59) We need to upgrade our consciousness

(01:45:44) Wokeism and COVID measures

(01:48:49) Damned if we do…

(01:53:59) Religion has predicted this

(01:56:39) Gain of function research and fission power

(02:01:06) Aiming for a higher good

(02:02:33) The atheist’s advantage and heaven

(02:07:13) Descendants 10,000 years from now

(02:11:14) Building of an arc, remnants, and end of civilization

(02:18:56) Update religious texts?

(02:20:39) Tools and religion

(02:24:39) Is lineage the wrong level of abstraction?

(02:29:43) Follow-through tennis analogy

(02:35:57) Cynicism around religion

(02:40:23) Consciousness comes down on existence and forms identities

(02:44:17) Tetrapods and speciation

(02:48:40) Identity and purpose

(02:50:33) Wrap up

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